Quote by EternalParadoxKingray, I'm going to make this extra large font so
that it will not escape your attention.
Please don't mock our intelligence with the claim that you don't know how to
quote specific passages without first quoting the entire post. You have shown
that you know how to do it in this very thread, 10 posts above this current one
I'm writing.
If you don't want to respond to everything is
someone's post, DON'T QUOTE IT. Quote only the part you are responding
to.
I am warning you again, if you don't stop creating unnecessarily long posts with
unnecessary quotes, you won't be able to post at all.
whatever....just stop being a hard ass about it...sometimes
I wonder if moderators have too much power...
merged: 01-29-2008 ~ 02:54am
Quote by DarkRoseofHellSo I get
the time to post something, and oh hey look, look at Eternal Paradox's nice huge
font, now please read it -.-
Quote: sorry but nice try...there
is no contradiction...
I simply pointed out my goal,and then added what my opinion was that I wanted to
spread along with the information provided about the bible(goal).You try too
hard darkrose...underminding is the game you play.
If you're only informing, why are you giving stuff that sounds like conversion,
thats what I mean by contradiction.
I've pointed out my cause
too many times darkrose...if you cant understand that,then I can see why you
dont understand other things.
Quote: How is atheism more sinful
than Christianity if another religion's god/s are the right ones to believe in?
And how if one is an atheist will the feeling of not being judged cease existing
before they die and cease to exist?
Athiesm encourages making your own meaning to life,and living it with your own
principles,not God's.Christianity encourages Gods morals,which are
flawless...but i think you got confused with the people of the religion and the
religion itself....as for your last comment,its worded very strangely...could
you ask that again in a way that makes sense?
You mean it encourages being go "good" for its own sake instead of for
fear of damnation, tell me what strikes you as the more honest?
The last point means that if an atheist is right then guess what there is no
feeling of being judged. As a further clarification given that you cease
existence upon death you cannot therefore feel judged, there is nothing to
judge.
This means that an atheist can actually enjoy his life instead of worrying about
what comes after.
Quote:
Quote: You may not have noticed, but atheists don't pray.
That means that there is no experience of prayers not being answered, there are
no prayers to begin with. Atheists do not believe in some god of no gods, they
believe in things that can be proved, not mythical beings in the sky
somewhere.
My gosh.I know radicals will jump on me for this,but you are
a blockhead.Of course they dont have a God.You really think Im that
uneducated?the point was that they had no experiences to go by....of course they
dont pray...This is the greatest and worst assumption you have made
yet.
Poorly worded humour on my part, and a miss of obvious sarcasm on
yours.
Quote:
Quote: No, there is no deep down feeling of being wrong.
Their is a sense of joy at being free from the shackles of mindless dogma and
idiotic rules. There is an ability to chose your own way in life instead of
trying to live by something that has been out of date the moment it was
written.
As expected you hide it...but of course,its normal
since we are debating...I never expect you to admit...you feel like your free
from the shackles,when really the devil has loosened your shackles enough for
you to rumage around...but when your time is up,those shackles are drawn back to
the wall,and you will face your judgement.Feel free why you can...you only have
the years that come along on a humans lifespan...other than that...you tell me
how eternity feels compared to 80 years.
As nothing, including the universe, is eternal your question is obviously
flawed. I also note that you're back to preaching damnation rather than coherent
thought.
Quote: but you do take the easy way
out.its easy to not live by the rules of our lord,because its natural to
us....it may even be percieved as "fun",but things all have a
price.you may not crave God,but you know something's there.....again,go ahead
and retaliate with dirty messages and angry insults,but you cant hide it...the
fact is,you are trying to convince yourself there is nothing....by the way...its
better to comment on someone's behavior when you havent acted like a fool
yourself...just a word of advice.
Ah so you read enough to see that I was pissed off with your claiming to know
what I feel, but you don't seem to have paid any attention to the point where I
asked you to not do it again. So lets try this in reverse:
You cling desperately to your supposed afterlife and the being who claims to
hold the keys to accessing the nice part of it. You do this because you know
deep within your subconscious that there really is nothing. You came to this
realisation one day and were so scared by the thought that your meaningless
existence would end without your having left an indelible mark upon the world
that you turned to the first thing that allowed you to ignore the fear gnawing
at your mind. Knowing deep down that even this crutch is meaningless has caused
you dissatisfaction with your new life as a believer. This has in turn led to
your lashing out at those you perceive to happier than yourself in an attempt to
both garner some fleeting sense of worth and in a futile attempt to shore up
your ego against the possibility of realising once again with your waking
conscience the pointlessness of life.
As far as I can tell you never were an atheist, you were an agnostic who
suffered from the revelation that the universe couldn't care whether or not you
exist, and sought solace in the arms of hollow belief.
While I know a number of people who are sincere in their beliefs, I really do
think you are just hiding from reality instead of being one of them.
Oh and if you are going to accuse me of taking the easy option, try having some
idea about what my life has been like. As there are maybe three people who
actually know anything like the truth about my past, and even then none of those
know everything and one had to work out most of what he knows through inference.
I know for a definite fact that you are not one of those three therefore you
cannot make any statements about what I may or may not feel with any hope of
accuracy. Try looking up the full lyrics for my signature for a slight hint
about one part.
Quote: You may not be aware but
there is a difference between the defence of a religion [which is what you are
claiming to do], and preaching/trying to convert people [which is what you're
actually attempting to do]. You see people defending their religion usually
don't preach hellfire and damnation, while those attempting to enforce
conversion do.
Let me point this out to you,since you seem to be new to
this type of thing...I use the power of informing to defend the bible....just
because I mention what the scripture says about hell,doesnt mean I am
preaching...I have even told you that I dont preach and I dont plan on to....I
inform,not preach....get it right
Quote: Yes I have just stereotyped
a large group of people, it is however an accurate portrayal of every born-again
I have ever met either in real life or on the internet. Also I will note that
you performed the same stereotyping of atheists.
You use personal experience as a substitute for science, it is essentially the
same thing as going I'm saved thus I'm right, the same goes for saying
non-believers can't understand because they can't know. Its arguing from the
point of I'm right and you wont know why unless you agree with me. I also have
yet to see these bits of science you claim [note actual science, not this guy
says it counts as a scientific equivalent. It doesn't work when the person
viewing it has actually done a proper science at
university]
well your potrayal is insulting...Im im sure you
would find it the same way if me including others stereotyped you and your
friends.I dont flaunt my salvation,I tell you from what I know as an honest
man,that I know what is right...has nothing to do with my salvation...and the
truth is,either way,that salvation is the one thing you dont
have,nevertheless,how do you feel so superior in your opposing claims when
you've known nothing of what I know?You will never know what I know until you
are brave enough to ignore the lies of the world and give it a try.again,you can
point out all the lies of man and scientific findings,but I cant sway what I
know is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
Quote: Lets see how I came by the
claim that you're exaggerating. You don't recognise the name of the most
important event in the bible's history in terms of its organisation and
authenticity. If you claim to have made an extensive study of this book you
claim as the word of god then you should have at least a gut level recognition
of that name. If you don't then you may have studied random bits, or some of its
history, but you can't claim to have made an in-depth study of the subject if
you can't recognise something that almost any body with even a passing interest
in the topic would be able to name without thought.
on the contrary,a man can study the years of the holocaust
and the life of a crazy man who controlled Germany for many years,but not Know
the man was Hitler until the man was either interested in the name from the
beginning,or introduced to him in his learning process of the events.I was more
worried of the actual sequencing and motives of the event,not the name people
called it...although now that you mention it...I now can call the event
something...
Quote: You claimed that the bible
was an accurate translation in all versions and yet there are a number of
significant differences between those passages [witch means something different
to woman with powers, to man possessed of the same].
Doesn't changing it to make it easier to read point out that a lot of people
make mistakes as to meaning when reading it? In turn this implies that those
performing the task of copying it may have made the same mistakes.
no.the bible still has the same meaning,and gives the
correct point.If a book says a man or woman with powers,and another of the same
says a witch,then it does not change the meaning...if the book says the dog
ate,and another says the ate dog,then it doesnt change the meaning(back in those
days,the type of language translated was a langauge where they could reverse
words and make it mean the same thing.)simple things like that does nothing to
its authentic reasoning,even when passing by human error,it retains just about
every important messege needed to know about God.
Quote: The King James bible is the
closest to the original scripture? Please can I have some of your drugs they
must be good. That contains a number of changes to bring it more in line with
the thinking of a certain group of people than any actual accuracy.
Why point out a weal point in the bible? This is the book you believe is
inspired by an all-powerful being and yet has numerous weak points. If these
weak points were intended then it shows a distinct lack of foresight by a
supposedly all-knowing being.
He studied how the scriptures are authentic then what about the different
numbers for the number of people fed [5000 and 7000, if memory serves], using
different numbers of fish and bread? Surely that can't be artistic licence and
picking the lucky numbers of the people the story was being told to. Don't make
me laugh. Oh and here's another inconsistency your god goes from being a
psychopath with a taste for mass murder to someone who says love each other and
do no harm whatsoever
it doesnt matter if Jesus fed
200,5000,or 7000...the point is he made a great miracle.and Jesus was never a
murderer...he was perfect,and the only perfect one that ever set foot on
earth...As for god conducting the things he created,you have no right to
critisize his doings,because his thoughts are beyond us,and his reasons and will
are unknown to humankind....dont you dare insult God's Will,because then,you
show your weak point of not understanding the God I defend,in which you should
retire from this debate if this is correct.
Quote: Because it proves my point
about any translation of the bible being flawed, as in imperfect, otherwise
known as wrong.
you aid it yourself the numbers meant the
same thing...if thats the case,then you prove nothing....if the bible says 10
people were fed,and you find out only nine people were fed,you automatically
assume its evidence for you,when really it gives more evidence for the
bible...God didnt want you to care how many people were exactly saved on a
day,or how many people were fed over a miracle...he wants you to know he cares
for you and provdided a way into heaven with Him.so stop dwelling on the small
things that mean nothing...if your going to attempt to discourage me,do it
right.
Quote: Still ignoring the issue I
used that drivel as an example of.
I also note you are telling someone with a background in science and logical
thought to ignore both science and logic, don't think that it's going to
happen.
The point in it being understandable without belief is that it would leave a
larger number of people to believe and thus be "saved" something a
supposedly "good" deity would surely want.
If you cant give up your human instinct to use man made
technology to prove God's existence,then you are lost,in my eyes,probably
forever...its sad how you only use one man made technique to find God...even
when God says it wont work...tis a shame,that it is.
Quote: Actually you do need solid
proof if you actually want anyone to take you as anything more than a nutjob on
a mission to preach.
I dont need solid proof....The only proof people should see
is the change in a truly saved person,and how they want to share the good news
with them.and for the last time,im not preaching....so really,I wonder if A
NUTJOB LIKE YOU WILL UNDERSTAND THIS..
Quote: Fine Pm incoming. And I'm
not playing any game just trying to prevent my eyes from bleeding.
well if your eyes are bleeding this means two thing....you
either have a very strange disease which needs to be treated right away...or you
tried to be funny and nobody laughed....
Quote: However his own holy book
shows that his followers once worshipped a number of gods of whom he was only
one. This implies that if he is real so is the rest of that pantheon, and thus
he is therefore both jealous and hypocritical.
well the bible does say God is a jealous God in the old
testament,but not hypocritical....im not familiar with this pantheon thing of
yours but i can say this...it doesnt matter what God or godthey believed in
previously...they found the truth themselves and knew there was another
way....sure not all people belived him,even when he was standing next to
them,but thats there problem,not ours.
Quote by ProgramZERO*Response not
required... Since they are off-topic as mnemeth said... Unless you want to
respond to them but we'll only be contributing to digression... Not to anyone's
surprise.
Quote by kingray100did you forget what
I said previously?just scroll up.proving a religion wrong makes a
point.
But you've yet to prove Islam wrong and Christianity
right kingray.
Quote: the forum wasnt that
long...look it up yourself...Im not good at reiterating stuff...especially when
you can look it up with ease yourself.
Could you copy and
paste your proof here? Since it's so easily found, could you find it for me? I
certainly don't know where it is.*
Quote: of course it does...God's
son(which is basically God) was on earth.thats why its a miracle.your lucky he
didnt do something even more unbelievable...like lift a planet up and throw it
around the galaxy...then atheists would be growing rampant
haha.
But Jesus's divinity has not been proven yet. And no,
the bible is not evidence.*
Quote: how does this relate to the
sentence you replied to?this is a first.never had something like this
happen.
In one of your previous posts, you typed
Quote: yes.because the proof and
truth comes only from believing fully,it is impossible to prove it to the
unsaved.And so the bible backs up my
claim.so again,your not going to find it 100% correct unless you become a
true believer.Get it?
I was asking what you were referring to
in the bold part.*
Quote: Because I know for a fact
that my God exists,and that there is only one God.
How do you
know this? No, emotions and the bible are not evidence kingray.*
Quote: well really,if you
understand the bible,Christianity was before anything...its just it wasnt called
that,nor did the practices seem familiar to what we know today...but
yes,hinduism takes the role for being before it since the christianity of the
time wasnt fully understood,and nonpopular...until Christ came and made it
official.Hindiusm is sadly a false religion...again,its from me knowing my God
is authentically real...so I wont be surprised if you dont believe
me.
But you've yet to prove God's existence.*
Quote: well,i dont think dirt has a
God...do you?plus,again,I wont be too much help in these type of things since
again,I know for a fact my God is real.period.
God is the God
of dirt... (Sighs) And again, you've yet to prove God.*
Quote: why do you get the idea of
us threatning you about it?we are just tellinyou what happens when you reject
Jesus...simple as that...Its not like i want you to go there...i want you to be
in heaven..but its your choice not mine.you cant say hell isnt fair,because here
I am talking to you about the subject of God.
No 'all-loving'
God would send people to Hell for eternity. I'm not saying you would send me to
Hell, I'm saying an 'all-loving' God would not allow for Hell to exist.
Quote: how can I explain this to
you....?its like walking up to God himself and shaking his hand...and him
handing me a gift...I know he's there...and If i honestly know this,then there
isnt a point to look elsewhere.
But there is a point in
looking elsewhere since people of other faiths could also describe similar
emotions and experiences with Brahman or with the Islamic faith.
Quote: bible never tells us to burn
witches(if there are any to begin with)...and where in the bible does it say to
burn a cross?and nobody is forcing you to confess anything...but you have the
choice to confess your sins to God...not anyone else....and Chrisitanity doesnt
stand up for anti semitic programs...at least not the true christian
churches...(saved people who operate the churches)so no,it isnt the wrong
direction...its just the world's assumptions that make it seem
wrong.
But Christianity was the reason witches were burned.
Because they worked for the devil. According to you, Christianity would lead the
world in the right direction which, according to the previous examples, it
hasn't done a very good job of that. And who's to blame them? In their eyes,
burning witches was doing 'the Lord's work' and if you were born into those
times, you would've agreed.
Quote: your not getting it...im
telling you,you dont need to experience all other religions to find the right
one.you sound like an illogical recording machine...your not making a point so
give up.
My point is that if you were born Hindu, you
would've remained Hindu and honestly believed in the integrity of Hinduism. If
you were born Muslim, you would've remained Muslim and believed fully in the
integrity of Islam. The world doesn't see itself the way you see it
kingray.*
Quote: thats for me to know,and for
you to find out...I dont want to tell you the secrets God has done for me when I
know that wont be enough to persuade you.Thats my secret little arsenal that I
use to people who are in the thinking process of everything...which I cannot use
on you since this is an online debate...that would simple also be a very
personal matter which might affect the debate in a negative way.If you were to
say you were thinking,I couldnt believe you because I dont know you on a
persoanl level,also,that you might use those words just to see what I have to
offer,which wont work...Im too shrewd for such things.
Some
people pray for something and get it. Others don't and still get it. For
example, some people pray to survive a hurricane and do survive. Others don't
pray and also survive. The former thanks God. The latter thanks probability. Are
your examples chance or miracle?... But you are right... There is no way to
verify over the net... LOL!
Quote: again,thats what you
think...but I know that isnt the case.
God cannot interfere
with your free will. If God changed you, he's compromised your free
will.*
Quote: illegal?well there are sure
legal drugs that are are wrong also...and its not so much emotion either...go
deeper than that
What do you mean deeper?*
Quote: Well really,the thought of
atheism should work for everyone because its the natural sinful nature we are
born into...not to mention the feeling of not being judged or going to hell is a
nice feeling...but that wont last forever.As for atheism,it works with only the
lost...as for your experience,non egoes along with it...you dont experience the
God of no Gods answering your prayers...you experience the false hope that you
wont be judged,but you know down in your heat,that you are wrong...You probably
wont admit that,but I was once in your shoes,and I know what its like...you know
he's there...its just you choose the easier way out.again,you probably wont
admit,for reasons like keeping your atheist reputation,or sounding weak in a
debate...but I know its there,and you crave for the comfort of God and his
love....so please answer that calling,or at least give it more thought.I'll pray
for you.
I don't know. Belief that humans are all alone in
this world and that evil isn't always punished or kindness isn't always rewarded
is a much harsher reality and the reality I subscribe to since it's supported by
the way the world is and therefore more valid than any other perceived reality.
It's much harder being an Atheist than a Christian, believe me. I've been both.
It's as my sig says, "Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is
punished" and that's the truth.*
Quote by Mnemethwow you guys are really
getting into it (not that I have not encourged it a few times). I have a
recommendation to keep the poets a little shorter and easier to respond to. Try
referencing back the the threads original question in your responses instead of
merely trying to convince each other that "you" are right. Also some
the side trips this thread have taken are way way off subject unless you have a
way to tie them back (Yes I know I have also been guilty of this). Right now
this seems to be no more than a "you are wrong.. No YOU are wrong",
style thread without actually taking the original question into
account.
Yes, we are offtopic... Were you surprised?
ok look...to be honest,I dont have the time to respond to all of this
nonsense,nor do I want to...but im gonna only respond to the main
points...
Quote: But you've yet to prove
Islam wrong and Christianity right kingray.
I've proven wronf islam in the other thread.And I never said
i was going to prove christianity right in the first place...get it
right.
Quote: Could you copy and paste
your proof here? Since it's so easily found, could you find it for me? I
certainly don't know where it is.*
look,im a busy man...im not gonna waste my time repasting
something that you could look up yourself...exuse my vocabulary in this comment
but stop being a lazy ass and find it yourself...next thing you know it,you want
me to clean you'll want me to find your evidence!So look it up,or specualte that
it doesnt exist even though it does,just like you do with God.
Quote: God is the God of dirt...
(Sighs) And again, you've yet to prove God.*
you didnt get
the comment...i was trying to point out things didnt have specific Gods,like
dirt having a god,and and the trees having a god...ect.
Quote: No 'all-loving' God would
send people to Hell for eternity. I'm not saying you would send me to Hell, I'm
saying an 'all-loving' God would not allow for Hell to
exist.
yes,the all loving God does allow people to go to
hell,because they reject him.right now,your rejecting Him and so dont cry or
complain when you already know your fate.You complain on how the all loving God
would do such a thing...then dont go to hell and tell others about it!you
literally have the choice of going to heaven,or hell....stop delaying and make a
decision.
Quote: But Christianity was the
reason witches were burned. Because they worked for the devil. According to you,
Christianity would lead the world in the right direction which, according to the
previous examples, it hasn't done a very good job of that. And who's to blame
them? In their eyes, burning witches was doing 'the Lord's work' and if you were
born into those times, you would've agreed.
I finally found a proof of how to put your thoughts out of
the old testament....in the new testament,Jesus abolishes the old testament
rules,and brings fourth new rules...(excluding the 10 commandments)so first,its
not what christains are suppose to do..second,it doesnt matter what
happened...to us,killing people when they are doing something they think is
right is bad,but to the all knowing God who created us,he knows what is best and
what is worst for us...
merged: 01-21-2008 ~ 12:58am
Quote by k4poloScience since it has more
facts you can believe in. I believe Religion is based on a false state of facts
that was proposed by humankind. I think Science advanced the world in
technology. While Religion can raise the morals of humankind. (Even if it is a
false set of beliefs)
its funny how you automatically assume that relgion is false facts,when more
than half of the bible is found to be true and reliable...what about all the
wars and towns that were mentioned,were they false?of course not...
Quote: Yet again personal
experience DOES NOT equate to truth, it amounts to anecdotal evidence at best,
and this is insufficient to be a proof.
I specifically asked for proof, not a repetition of I know because I've been
saved. That is not proof, how many times does this need to be repeated before it
sinks in. Proof is something that can stand up to testing, not unsubstantiated
claims of I know I'm right.
yet again,personal expeirecne does equate to truth,depending
on the subject.It provides truth to one person...not anyone else...a truth can
be true without anyone knowing of it...its insufficient to be proof to the whole
world who uses other methods to find "truth"...but not to the
believer.And I never said I know because Im saved....Saved doesnt mean much to
you to begin with,(im guessing from your comments)...so I told you other things
from im being saved magic trick.Proof is something humanity considers proof,and
yet there are things not known to humanity that are true...for
example...God.
Quote: If I had to say I reckon it
would probably be something along the lines of properly structured and rational
arguments, not resorting to I know for I'm saved but you can't because you're
not, and to refrain for saying those who haven't been saved are doomed to an
eternity of hellfire
Well only people who talk about
behavior(especially on an internet debate room) and use it to their advantage
are the people who have nothing to point out...Again,dont expect anything
different from me just because I claim myself as a Christian...If you want to
see evidence of behavior and judge it upon me,get to know me outside the debate
box.all your going to see is a man who wants to defend his religion and fix the
lies society has spread.and I have no problem with saying people who reject
Christ as their savior go to hell...it's what the book I believe says,and Im
gonna tell ya about for your own good.
Quote: It's not hard to spot a born
again they usually think that "I know I've been saved, thus I'm right and
this counts as evidence" is a rational argument and counts more than
scientific evidence. It's this kind of reasoning [or lack of] that causes many
people to despise them, try to be different.
let me begin by saying you just stereotyped a largegroup of
people...I hope you reply with an apology.Secondly,I dont ever use my salvation
to prove Im right.I use little dabbles of scientific info(for the science
people),and personal honest statements made about myself.It's impossible for me
to say nothing has changed ever since I was saved....I would be
lying...
Quote: If you have seen a detailed
documentary and have studied the process of how the bible was kept accurate as
you claim then the name should be familiar. It should also be familiar if you
attempt to use this in any debate about the authenticity of the bible. As the
name isn't familiar and the other variants are Nicaea and Nicine both of which
are close enough to the one I used to be recognised as such, this implies that
your claims are either exaggerated or completely false.
Well the name wasnt familiar...I paid more attention to
their motives and processes...aside from ther name....but I'll look into that
later...and your last statement made little sense to me....I dont see how you
came to the conclusion of how I was exaggerated or false....please explain your
assumption to me.
Quote: You mean that in your bible
studies you missed Exodus 22:18? This verse also allows me to demonstrate the
differences between the various versions of the bible:
King James Bible
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
American Standard Version
Thou shalt not suffer a sorceress to live.
Bible in Basic English
Any woman using unnatural powers or secret arts is to be put to death.
Douay-Rheims Bible
Wizards thou shalt not suffer to live.
Darby Bible Translation
thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
English Revised Version
Thou shalt not suffer a sorceress to live.
Jewish Publication Society Tanakh
Thou shalt not suffer a sorceress to live.
Webster's Bible Translation
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
World English Bible
"You shall not allow a sorceress to live.
Young's Literal Translation
'A witch thou dost not keep alive.
As you can see there are major differences in the wording between a number of
these versions. If you then transcribed a copy from one of these it is easy to
see how one would change a sentence so that it means the same as the original,
and then someone later updating the copy you made would then write something
that meant the same as the first copy but something completely different to the
original.
Im not sure what you're pointing out...I could have
told you that there are different stranslations within modern bibles...they use
it for purposes such as an easier read....but nevertheless,I use the King James
bible,since its the closest to original preserved scripture.But again...why
point this weak point out?most of it was done purposefully,and doesnt affect the
authenticity of the actual scriptures...but overall,you should read the book
"The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel...it points out in detail on how
the scriptures are authentic...(it was written by someone who was an athiest who
used his own observatory skills and court skills to decipher the truth.Good
read,if you want the full story.(i would tell you,but the book is quite
large,and I have trouble remembering the detailed history and accounts of
everything.)
Quote: Oxford University, 2005. Is
that source good enough for you. If not there is also Dr. Paul Lewes and his
book A Key to Christian Origins, although it might be hard to find a copy as it
was written in 1932, therefore I shall quote:
"The figure 616 is given in one of the two best manuscripts, C (Codex
Ephraemi Rescriptus, Paris), by the Latin version of Tyconius (DCXVI, ed. Souter
in the Journal of Theology, SE, April 1913), and by an ancient Armenian version
(ed. Conybaere, 1907). Irenaeus knew about it [the 616 reading], but did not
adopt it (Haer. v.30,3), Jerome adopted it (De Monogramm., ed. Dom G Morin in
the Rev. Benedictine, 1903). It is probably original. The number 666 has been
substituted for 616 either by analogy with 888, the [Greek] number of Jesus
(Deissmann), or because it is a triangular number, the sum of the first 36
numbers (1+2+3+4+5+6...+36 = 666)".
again...I noticed that this was pointless also...it still
doesnt divert the actual point of the bible....a simple number change doesnt
really mean much to anyone...unless you would like to explain why you even
bothered fighting for this claim.
Quote: Wikipedia is a lot more
accurate than many of the sites that you have suggested
thats
just a false opinion.and just to let you know,I've only represented one site
recently...so your judgement on the sites I provided was assumptious like and
amatuer like.
Quote: I would love the Da Vinci
Code to be true? I do actually happen to have some taste, and to quote a great
man "Its arse gravy of the worst kind." kind of sums up my feelings
about that abomination.
Now back to the matter at hand, your arguments have been in no way logical. They
have consisted of "you can't know the truth because you haven't been
saved" and "Wikipedia doesn't count as a source." My arguments on
the other hand I can and have provided sources for, they are also based off of
logical reasons rather than personal experience. I also note that you don't
address the original point that the Da Vinci Code was an example
for
Yes,they are logical.Its just your misunderstanding most
of the things I say,and exaggerating them to your interest...I never said you
dont know because your not saved...the thing is,Christianity runs on faith...so
how do you expect me to tell you anything else then "believe and find
out?"The truth lies within,is basically what Im trying to say...unless you
want to give it a try and ignore the theories of the world to find your
meaning,then I dont expect you to fully know about it...as a matter of fact,you
arent suppose to know about it before your saved anyway...so unless you make
that decision now,your only running around in circles...and i never said
wikipedia doesnt count...i simply said that it isnt very reliable,compared to a
real science point from an unchanged program,with actual proof supporting their
claim...(the thing is you need hard proof to prove what you say,while I
dont)...wikipedia is changable by anyone who wishes to change it.the
end.
Quote: It would give people a
better impression of you if you did so, it would also make it easier to read
your posts. I do admit however that it is mostly a personal preference, just be
glad I'm not demanding that you apply the letter u to the places where it should
be present. It is not an attempt to make you feel bad about your debating it's
in the interest of readability, and the more pressing concern is the use of
spaces after punctuation such as commas and full stops. By the way I'm not the
only one to have pointed this out.
yes you are...your underminding my debating skills to make
me look bad...if you henestly had a full actual important problem with my
grammer and ect,then pm me...dont use it in this type of debate...it's
foolishness...(lol,your playing the darkrose game.)
Quote: There is no actual
correlation between any of those bible verses and what they are being construed
to mean. I especially like the third one where they don't even bother to
try.
I'll get to this in a sec...just gotta finish some other
stuff first...
Quote: Personal experience does not
represent proof, it is in no way testable therefore it cannot be used as
scientific evidence. I believe that you are missing the point when people ask
for proof. They do not want a personal account they want actual proof, something
that can be tested, and can thus be proved or disproved. Personal experience, as
others have said, is different for everyone therefore claiming it as truth
doesn't work and is illogical.
just because you cant test it,doesnt mean its not proof(at
least not to you anyway,but to others yes)personal experience is inaffective
against you,but not to the people who go through it lol.
Quote: But you're claiming that
your god is the only true god. How can you claim this is the truth if you
haven't tried all the other religions in existence to see whether or not their
gods are also true. For all you know from experience is that one of a possibly
infinite number of gods is real, you haven't actually checked whether or not
that is the only one.
no,there's only one God...if my God is true,then so is his
word that says there is only one god,and its him.
Quote: And here you ignore the
point that the person you're quoting made. You claim that religions older than
Christianity took parts of their beliefs form this relatively recent religion. I
may be wrong, but I don't think the poster claimed that Islam is older than
Christianity. Take a look at some of the polytheistic religions at some point,
if you did you might notice that even they don't have individual gods for every
last single thing in existence, therefore your argument is flawed.
Actually,its a definite fact that Islam is the newest
religion(of the main religions,anyway).And I know there isnt a God for
everything in existence,but the examples I used are some of the things that are
involved with the polytheistic religions.So yes,you are wrong,and concluding
that,means your argument is flawed.
Quote: How is atheism more sinful
than Christianity if another religion's god/s are the right ones to believe in?
And how if one is an atheist will the feeling of not being judged cease existing
before they die and cease to exist?
Athiesm encourages making your own meaning to life,and
living it with your own principles,not God's.Christianity encourages Gods
morals,which are flawless...but i think you got confused with the people of the
religion and the religion itself....as for your last comment,its worded very
strangely...could you ask that again in a way that makes sense?
Quote: You may not have noticed,
but atheists don't pray. That means that there is no experience of prayers not
being answered, there are no prayers to begin with. Atheists do not believe in
some god of no gods, they believe in things that can be proved, not mythical
beings in the sky somewhere.
My gosh.I know radicals will jump on me for this,but you are
a blockhead.Of course they dont have a God.You really think Im that
uneducated?the point was that they had no experiences to go by....of course they
dont pray...This is the greatest and worst assumption you have made
yet.
Quote: No, there is no deep down
feeling of being wrong. Their is a sense of joy at being free from the shackles
of mindless dogma and idiotic rules. There is an ability to chose your own way
in life instead of trying to live by something that has been out of date the
moment it was written.
As expected you hide it...but of
course,its normal since we are debating...I never expect you to admit...you feel
like your free from the shackles,when really the devil has loosened your
shackles enough for you to rumage around...but when your time is up,those
shackles are drawn back to the wall,and you will face your judgement.Feel free
why you can...you only have the years that come along on a humans
lifespan...other than that...you tell me how eternity feels compared to 80
years.
Quote: Yes you might once have been
an atheist, but that is both incredibly wrong and highly insulting. I couldn't
give a damn about my reputation or about admitting that I was wrong if it is
proved that that is the case. I do however take extreme objection to being told
I've taken the easy way out. You have no clue what the lives of the other
posters are like, you don't know whether their lives have been easy or hard, you
have no clue what they have or haven't done, and you can have no concept of the
choices they may have had to make. I take it very badly when someone even
implies that I crave the presence of some arbitrary bastard in the sky, and even
worse when they say so without knowing anything about me. I would take it as a
personal favour if you refrain from saying so in future, and a deliberate
affront if you tell me what I feel, or what I think at any point in the future.
While that last part may sound harsh, it is the most polite way I can put my
displeasure at being told what I feel/think/have or haven't
done.
but you do take the easy way out.its easy to not live
by the rules of our lord,because its natural to us....it may even be percieved
as "fun",but things all have a price.you may not crave God,but you
know something's there.....again,go ahead and retaliate with dirty messages and
angry insults,but you cant hide it...the fact is,you are trying to convince
yourself there is nothing....by the way...its better to comment on someone's
behavior when you havent acted like a fool yourself...just a word of advice.
Quote by EternalParadox(...) stop
quoting an entire post, then quote again the specific sections individually.
Just quote once, and only the sections individually. You're making your posts
unnecessarily long and that's half spamming.
that'd be really nice... he's been pointed out about this quite a few times, never seemed to make any
difference however. i can only imagine with horror how the editing field looks
like with a thousand letters in it... no wonder he can't correct his messages
once they're written.
.quite a while since last being here. i've been a little afraid the thread had
fell into oblivion
Kingray reminds me a bit of Jeanne d'Arc. no apparent background (either
liturgical, logical, scientific, or whatsoever); only faith. at least Jeanne
didn't feel like broadly speaking about the Bible and faith. sorry for such a
misfortunate likening, but i really can't believe that he really
thinks/believes/is the way his words portray him - that is, can there really be
such an individual?
oh... here's a link. i find it funny of some sort. it's so much proof of that
"pride" sin... and on the brink of blasphemy http://www.everystudent.com/wires/whatlike.html
Kingray, please, it seems that you're alone against a bunch of 'atheists' -
please indulge me, it would really help your case if you could tell us your own
experiences() that made/make you believe so fiercely in God; please tell us the
prayers that you were answered to; please leave aside the philo/logical debates
about words written by humans; please tell us which Bible do you take as God's
word? with which chapter does it begin, and with which chapter does it end?
what's written on the back cover? who published it? the ISBN, if any? that is
because i think all your opponents should know what to refer to when arguing
with you.
honesty helps understanding.
as for me, i believe that there's more to this world than what we see/know now.
and that people should be [more] honest with themselves and with the others,
both in science and in faith. i see scientific groups developing clerical
attitudes - i.e. "mildly lying". since it's the 21st century and i'd
like to suspect humans of "growing conscience", that's acutely
bothering me. but, as always, "church" finds its reasons in
economy.
Quote: that'd be really nice...
he's been pointed out about this quite a few times, never seemed to make any
difference however. i can only imagine with horror how the editing field looks
like with a thousand letters in it... no wonder he can't correct his messages
once they're written.
i believe that post by eternal paradox isnt familiar to
me..You see,there are way too many things to read in such a small amount of
time...people are surprised when I skip their comments,but really,it takes hours
for me just to fight back against the same type of opponent....Im only one
person with a limited time...you have five or more people sprouting out telling
me their ideas...also,when I quote specific sentences,and post it,the whole
message from before comes out,without my doing...so its not my fault...
Quote: Kingray reminds me a bit of
Jeanne d'Arc. no apparent background (either liturgical, logical, scientific, or
whatsoever); only faith. at least Jeanne didn't feel like broadly speaking about
the Bible and faith. sorry for such a misfortunate likening, but i really can't
believe that he really thinks/believes/is the way his words portray him - that
is, can there really be such an individual?
the person you relate me to doesnt come to mind...but I see
its your way of insulting me,or I should say,underminding me.The point is,if you
cant understand a person's word's,or at least understand their view
correctly,you shouldnt judge anyone and say their illogical or ect...you say
faith like its a bad thing,but really,your assumption couldnt be farther from
the truth.
Quote: please tell us the prayers
that you were answered to; please leave aside the philo/logical debates about
words written by humans; please tell us which Bible do you take as God's word?
with which chapter does it begin, and with which chapter does it end? what's
written on the back cover? who published it? the ISBN, if any? that is because i
think all your opponents should know what to refer to when arguing with you.
honesty helps understanding.
I must say,you've pointed out the point I want to bring to
light...I am bunched around many athiests and nonbelievers...and I have no
problem with that(i expected it from the research already given to me without
trying)But its the time,and patience I find unbearable....sometimes I just wait
a week to give myself some personal time away from the incessant replies.(i also
have a job)
now anyway...as for my prayers...it is useless....I could say something like God
allowed me to live for another day as an example,and people would think Im
crazy,and assume that I really have no compelling reasons....(even though that
is an example,I definitely wont use that,since its not good enough...for you
anyway)...but the truth is,If I told you my exeriences and prayers,you would
again speculate and try to find reasons for everything...I want my secrets to be
your secrets as well...and there's one way to do it...Trust and believe in
God,and his son who died for every last one of us....a simple prayer,and yet its
turned down by many.This area is meant for debates,not to release my personal
secrets and reasons out to the MT society so that they may corrupt my
information.My prayers will stay classified in this debate.The bible is written
more by men...it was written by the men who saw and spoke to God...the men who
were told by God himself to write these things....even if history seems dim in
the bible to you,the fact that Jesus is our savior remains, and always shall be
true.
Quote: My goal is to tell people
and inform people about God's word/bible...too many people have the wrong idea
of the bible,and im here to straighten the record...
That contradicts
Quote: and also convince people
that the reason for life is more important than any
science.
That.
sorry but nice try...there is no contradiction...
I simply pointed out my goal,and then added what my opinion was that I wanted to
spread along with the information provided about the bible(goal).You try too
hard darkrose...underminding is the game you play.
merged: 01-18-2008 ~ 05:22am
Quote by EternalParadoxKingray,
stop quoting an entire post, then quote again the specific sections
individually. Just quote once, and only the sections individually. You're making
your posts unnecessarily long and that's half spamming.
Well
inform of how to do that,because all I do is pick out specific qoutes and it
brings everything else along with it.
Quote by yothsothgothIn reference to
onyhow's post above me (complimenting Christianity and science), I would say
read the past posts on the MT-Atheists page about science
proving some events in the Bible.
@ priincess and kingray in converting others to
your faith:
If you do so in a forceful manor, noone will want to understand your faith or
the way in which you believe. Noone wants to believe in a religion where they're
forced to convert. That's why God gave humans free will. If we didn't have free
will and God had forced us to love Him... it really wouldn't have been real
love... right? Forced love isn't real love. Also, in the Bible, it does say that
if someone doesn't want to be converted... its not our place to keep trying. To
my understanding, God wants us to pray for them, not act harshly with words or
actions. Okay?
@ all posters here in this thread:
I think science and religion have to be understood before you can have anyone
really believe or have faith in either. To really understand science, you must
learn all you can about it. Learning makes you smarter, inquisitive thinking
makes your mind grow stronger. Religious beliefs are the same way. If you don't
know why you believe the way you do, or what other religions are out there and
understand why others believe that way.... you're not comprehending your own
beliefs. I think its wise to make sure, and to reaffirm your faith in your
religious beliefs as well as your scientific ones. The best way to do that is to
do research on both topics.
Quote: @ priincess and kingray in converting others to your faith:
If you do so in a forceful manor, noone will want to understand your faith or
the way in which you believe. Noone wants to believe in a religion where they're
forced to convert. That's why God gave humans free will. If we didn't have free
will and God had forced us to love Him... it really wouldn't have been real
love... right? Forced love isn't real love. Also, in the Bible, it does say that
if someone doesn't want to be converted... its not our place to keep trying. To
my understanding, God wants us to pray for them, not act harshly with words or
actions. Okay?
understood....but you forgot to point out that my goal was
never to convert anyone...nor do I use force to do that.My goal is to tell
people and inform people about God's word/bible...too many people have the wrong
idea of the bible,and im here to straighten the record...and also convince
people that the reason for life is more important than any science.and
yes,prayer....but again,im simply explaining and debating in a modern
manor...but I give you thumbs up because you are an admirable person,at least to
my vision.
Quote by ProgramZEROI WOULD APPRECIATE IT IF YOU COULD RESPOND TO THAT
WHICH IS IN BOLD AND IF YOU DON'T TELL ME TO LOOK FOR IT MYSELF. YOU MADE THE CLAIM, YOU BACK THAT CLAIM
UP.
Quote by kingray100what do you mean
why?because it makes a point.
WHAT makes a point?
Quote: and i proved it wrong by
providing good details on how the beginning of Islam was
started.
How was it started
KingRay?
Quote: I even went face to face
with a muslim in the discusion,and nothing...
Well, you're
talking to me now KingRay.
Quote: there is a reason for
that,because God knew humans would try to prove and disprove his word with wild
theories and human idealogy.
I don't know. Walking on water
defies the law of gravity. That sounds a bit wild to me.
Quote: yes.because the proof and
truth comes only from believing fully,it is impossible to prove it to the
unsaved.And so the bible backs up my claim.so again,your not going to find it
100% correct unless you become a true believer.Get it?
What claim does the bible back up and
how?
Quote: other than judaism,the other
religions are sadly false.
How do you know they are false?
Quote: They took the idea of faith
from the truth,which is Christianity.
Are you implying that
Hinduism came AFTER Christianity? Actually, Hinduism is older than
Christianity.
Quote: The reason i exclude Judiasm
is because they have the basic things correct,but deny Jesus,for foolish
reasons.
Alright, give me
these reasons and why they are foolish.
Quote: let me begin by saying the
universe was not created by over 900 Gods.
How do you know this?
Quote: Second,they mention a
difference,but is it a good difference?no.Believing the evil is your master may
change you alot,but it doesnt change your life in the way its suppose to be
changed,the good way.So yes,there is a
difference.
Threatening someone with "Eternal
Damnation" isn't exactly 'all-loving' either.
Quote: Of course it is a big
claim...but the claim goes unclaimed by society because we think there's more to
it than that.and there is no need to experience any other religions when you
have found the right one.
How do you know it's the 'right
one' when you've never 'experienced' the others? When you say it's the 'right
one', you are comparing it to other religions.
Quote: Again,I give you my honesty
that I do,indeed,encourage the path of Christianity.It changes humanity to the
way its suppose to be.
Burning witches, anti-semitic pogroms,
cross-burning, forced confessions... That seems like the wrong direction to
me.
Quote: thats not a good analogy.A
car does not prove to the individual that it is the
best.
Neither does religion when one has yet to practice
other faiths, past and present.
Quote: But yes,I trust God because
all of its claims come to light,and what it says is
true.
What's
true?
Quote: The prayers that I am told
to pray work.
Which would
these be?
Quote: There is a different change
in me,that topples anything in my life...
I still think you
deserve the most credit for the change in your life.
Quote: Why would I spend my time on
something I felt was wrong?
I wouldn't rely on emotions.
Illegal drugs make people feel 'right' but I think we would both agree illegal
drugs are wrong.
Quote: Not just that,but my life
now rotates around God,and I love it dearly,and thank Him for
this.
Glad that's working for you. Atheism works for me very
well and that's my experience.
Quote:
b]I WOULD APPRECIATE IT IF YOU COULD RESPOND TO THAT WHICH IS IN BOLD AND
IF YOU DON'T TELL ME TO LOOK FOR IT MYSELF. YOU MADE THE CLAIM, YOU BACK THAT CLAIM UP.
oh im sorry...its just it takes me around 20 minutes to
complete each post,and i kinda have a life to live...not to mention when I look
at this...most of your questions are meaningless,not to be rude or
anything...but I'll give it a shot...
Quote:
b]WHAT makes a point?
did you forget what I said previously?just scroll up.proving
a religion wrong makes a point.
Quote: ]How was it started KingRay?
the forum wasnt that long...look it up yourself...Im not
good at reiterating stuff...especially when you can look it up with ease
yourself.
Quote: Well, you're talking to me
now KingRay
then come join the dead argument,program...who's
stopping you?
Quote: I don't know. Walking on
water defies the law of gravity. That sounds a bit wild to me.
of course it does...God's son(which is basically God) was on
earth.thats why its a miracle.your lucky he didnt do something even more
unbelievable...like lift a planet up and throw it around the galaxy...then
atheists would be growing rampant haha.
Quote: ]What claim does the bible back up and how?
how does this relate to the sentence you replied to?this is
a first.never had something like this happen.
Quote: ]How do you know they are false?
Because I know
for a fact that my God exists,and that there is only one God.
Quote: Are you implying that
Hinduism came AFTER Christianity? Actually, Hinduism is older than
Christianity.
well really,if you understand the bible,Christianity was
before anything...its just it wasnt called that,nor did the practices seem
familiar to what we know today...but yes,hinduism takes the role for being
before it since the christianity of the time wasnt fully understood,and
nonpopular...until Christ came and made it official.Hindiusm is sadly a false
religion...again,its from me knowing my God is authentically real...so I wont be
surprised if you dont believe me.
Quote:
b]Alright, give me these reasons and why they are foolish.
one reason would be,that the jews "wanted" their
messiah and "expected" their messiah to free them from rule and fight
for their country ect...being selfish.They wanted to be freed from the hold of
other nations ect...when really Jesus freed everyone,making a way into
heaven,giving the Jews the ultimate freedom...Just because Jesus was a
Jew,doesnt mean the Jews are special people who get to go into heaven
automatically....(the new testament explains this everywhere,read if you are
interested).its foolish to want you messiah to do one thing,when he has done
beyond that thing...proving that humans are selfish.
Quote: ]How do you know this?
well,i dont think dirt has a God...do you?plus,again,I wont
be too much help in these type of things since again,I know for a fact my God is
real.period.
Quote: Threatening someone with
"Eternal Damnation" isn't exactly 'all-loving'
either
why do you get the idea of us threatning you about
it?we are just tellinyou what happens when you reject Jesus...simple as
that...Its not like i want you to go there...i want you to be in heaven..but its
your choice not mine.you cant say hell isnt fair,because here I am talking to
you about the subject of God.
Quote: How do you know it's the
'right one' when you've never 'experienced' the others? When you say it's the
'right one', you are comparing it to other religions.
how can
I explain this to you....?its like walking up to God himself and shaking his
hand...and him handing me a gift...I know he's there...and If i honestly know
this,then there isnt a point to look elsewhere.
Quote: Burning witches,
anti-semitic pogroms, cross-burning, forced confessions... That seems like the
wrong direction to me.
bible never tells us to burn witches(if there are any to
begin with)...and where in the bible does it say to burn a cross?and nobody is
forcing you to confess anything...but you have the choice to confess your sins
to God...not anyone else....and Chrisitanity doesnt stand up for anti semitic
programs...at least not the true christian churches...(saved people who operate
the churches)so no,it isnt the wrong direction...its just the world's
assumptions that make it seem wrong.
Quote: Neither does religion when
one has yet to practice other faiths, past and present
your
not getting it...im telling you,you dont need to experience all other religions
to find the right one.you sound like an illogical recording machine...your not
making a point so give up.
Quote: ]Which would these be?
thats for me to know,and for you to find out...I dont want
to tell you the secrets God has done for me when I know that wont be enough to
persuade you.Thats my secret little arsenal that I use to people who are in the
thinking process of everything...which I cannot use on you since this is an
online debate...that would simple also be a very personal matter which might
affect the debate in a negative way.If you were to say you were thinking,I
couldnt believe you because I dont know you on a persoanl level,also,that you
might use those words just to see what I have to offer,which wont work...Im too
shrewd for such things.
Quote: I still think you deserve
the most credit for the change in your life.
again,thats what you think...but I know that isnt the
case.
Quote: I wouldn't rely on emotions.
Illegal drugs make people feel 'right' but I think we would both agree illegal
drugs are wrong
illegal?well there are sure legal drugs that
are are wrong also...and its not so much emotion either...go deeper than
that
Quote: Glad that's working for you.
Atheism works for me very well and that's my experience.[/
Well really,the thought of atheism
should work for everyone because its the natural sinful nature we are born
into...not to mention the feeling of not being judged or going to hell is a nice
feeling...but that wont last forever.As for atheism,it works with only the
lost...as for your experience,non egoes along with it...you dont experience the
God of no Gods answering your prayers...you experience the false hope that you
wont be judged,but you know down in your heat,that you are wrong...You probably
wont admit that,but I was once in your shoes,and I know what its like...you know
he's there...its just you choose the easier way out.again,you probably wont
admit,for reasons like keeping your atheist reputation,or sounding weak in a
debate...but I know its there,and you crave for the comfort of God and his
love....so please answer that calling,or at least give it more thought.I'll pray
for you.
Quote:
Science is the study of the real world, if it does not get along with
religion, then it is religion that is wrong. What you are talking about is fact
vs belief. Evolution and the age of the earth are a couple of examples that are
fact and do not go along with religion. Chew on that for a
bit.
correction...i know God and his book are fact...you dont,and so do many people
also.until you are a truly saved christian,dont comment to say Christianity isnt
fact,just because you dont know it,doesnt mean I dont either.
Chew on that for more than a bit.
So you know that the bible is fact do you, care to provide any proof of this?
Because unless you can provide a proof that will stand up to rigorous scientific
testing then you can't call what is essentially a self-contradictory piece of
fiction fact. Whether or not you are "a truly saved christian" has no
bearing on, nor is good enough, a properly laid out proof, so don't just state
that again.
Quote:
Quote: Anyways, going with calling me crazy are you?
Anything that could go against the church will label the owner crazy I guess.
no,if you actually took the time to read with the eyes God gave you,you would
see i called you a crazy because you cant solve the difference between teaching
history and teaching what to do.lol,you make it too hard to humble myself,you
know that?
So crazy is demanding that something be provable [as far as I can make out], and
please re-write that section to make sense.
Quote: well i dont know where you
got the idea of how christians are perfect people..but im not perfect,nor better
than you.I just tend to get carried away when I see incredibly illogical
comments.....
From this book you are so fond of referencing as fact, you are supposed to lead
others to the truth through example. If you truly believe in your religion then
you should be following the example of your messiah, and thus should not be
deliberately obtuse and insulting.
Quote: all you have to do to find
facts in the bible is type"factual biblical events" on a good search
engine...its in books,movies,internet,how can you miss this?you obviously run on
opinion,and no studies.
So you can use the internet as a source to back your claims but others can't,
hmm logical. And movies count as proof of the bible being factual, obviously The
Da Vinci Code is perfectly true and factual as there is a book, a movie, and a
number of articles on it on teh interwebs. Your logic is therefore faulty. If
you care to provide a link to a site to back up your claims I will be happy to
debate the relative merits of such with you, but until then the burden of proof
rests upon you for it is you who is trying to prove something true.
Quote:
Quote: the thing that corresponds to fact or reality
Now, does that sound like the bible? Even after stating that there are things in
the bible that go against reality?
yes it does sound like the bible...it has everything to do with
reality.
I'm not even going to bother.
Quote: It doesnt matter if you
laugh your head off and say there's no hell,because your gonna find out to see
if you really do stay quiet and safe underground,or if you do spend eternity in
hellfire.So its not me im worried about,its you.things that go against reality?i
dont see anything that goes against it.
Quite and safe underground, that sounds like someone is hiding from reality and
its not the atheists. So if we don't believe in your all-good god we will be
damned to eternal torment, somehow I see a contradiction in this.
Oh and is hell endothermic or exothermic?
Quote:
Quote: Roflmao! Your an evangelical christian then
huh
rofl...no im not....im a christian baptist,who happened to feel obligated to
straighten out the MT religious forums.Some people know me as the MT
priest.
I would have no idea of what others might call you, but you sound like a born
again christian, and you do seem to have more in common with evangelicals in
your wording than any protestant I have ever conversed with.
Quote:
Quote: We have no idea where the bible came from and that is
a big thing that keeps it alive in todays world.
What do you mean we?many scientists know where it came from,and I know it has
been passed down without error over many years.I've studied the process in which
it was kept authentic.
It has been passed down without error for many years, and you've studied this
process? Then you have surely heard of the Council of Nicea, you know the group
of men who decided which books were to be included in the bible, which where to
be included in the Apocrypha, and which were to be ignored completely? Oh and
you know that the passage reading "Thou shall not suffer a witch to
live" was a mistranslation, or that the number of the beast is in fact not
666, and that it was changed because it seemed original number didn't sound as
good. Oh and there are no differences between editions of the bible, so explain
things like the King James bible, which is in places significantly different to
the other bibles of the day, or many of the differences between current
editions.
As a side point please pay attention to both your spelling and grammar, solitary
letter i's should be capitalised like this I, there should be spaces after
commas, and apostrophes exist for a reason so please use them. I know this is a
minor point and irrelevant to the discussion, but it would make it easier to
read your posts.
Quote: So you know that the bible
is fact do you, care to provide any proof of this? Because unless you can
provide a proof that will stand up to rigorous scientific testing then you can't
call what is essentially a self-contradictory piece of fiction fact. Whether or
not you are "a truly saved christian" has no bearing on, nor is good
enough, a properly laid out proof, so don't just state that
again
you know,people like you tend to prove my points
without knowing it.again,nonbelievers will not find proof through a believer's
experienced proof because it is not in their sight.thanks for proving my
point.
Quote: So crazy is demanding that
something be provable [as far as I can make out], and please re-write that
section to make sense.
well first,its not nice to butt in on personal comments such
as this,because things happen,such as you not understanding what the little
exchange was all about.what you made out wasnt enough,so its better left
alone.
Quote: From this book you are so
fond of referencing as fact, you are supposed to lead others to the truth
through example. If you truly believe in your religion then you should be
following the example of your messiah, and thus should not be deliberately
obtuse and insulting.
again,i'll point out that nobody is perfect,yes,even
christians.and its too hard to convey christian behavior on an online debate,so
dont be so assuming of what you see in the debate room,because the format and
strategy I use in debating is this,its too hard to prove a point or debate when
im being very humble and shy.I want you guys to know the facts here,or at least
get you guys to think about your lives.
Quote: I would have no idea of what
others might call you, but you sound like a born again christian, and you do
seem to have more in common with evangelicals in your wording than any
protestant I have ever conversed with.
thanks for mentioning I was born again...im flattered.even
though you may not know me on a personal level,at least you know some things
other people dont.Omedeto(means congrats in japanese).and honestly,I dont get
the difference between all these little branches...I've yet done research on
these things...but I would like to be known as just a truly saved
christian...not a political figure,or something people would despise for any
reason...I am simply myself.
Quote: Then you have surely heard
of the Council of Nicea, you know the group of men who decided which books were
to be included in the bible, which where to be included in the Apocrypha, and
which were to be ignored completely?
I've seen a dtailed
documentary on this thing...the name of the group doesnt ring a bell,but their
actions and motives do.They excluded some things in the beginning for reasons
such as not being related,too grusome of history,and things that were
questionable...all and all,the bible was made the way it was,to preserve God's
Word as what He wanted it to be...these men I should say,were ordained by God to
make the right choices in creating the biblical canon correctly.
Quote: Oh and you know that the
passage reading "Thou shall not suffer a witch to live" was a
mistranslation,
no,doesnt sound familiar...point that verse
out for me,and I will do research on it.even if it is in the bible,I bet it was
only a mistranslation with atheists...but go on.
Quote: that the number of the beast
is in fact not 666, and that it was changed because it seemed original number
didn't sound as good.
where's your proof?
Quote: So you can use the internet
as a source to back your claims but others can't, hmm
logical
first,I only resort to using the internet because
your allies request me to do so to prove my point.Secondly,i never forbidded
anyone using the internet...let me explain some things to you,since you came out
of nowhere...it was previously debated on many a thread that wikipedia is
unreliable.I have a thing against the reliability of wikipedia,not anything
else,unless i find out a reference is just an illogical hate site.
Quote: The Da Vinci Code is
perfectly true and factual as there is a book, a movie, and a number of articles
on it on teh interwebs. Your logic is therefore faulty. If you care to provide a
link to a site to back up your claims I will be happy to debate the relative
merits of such with you, but until then the burden of proof rests upon you for
it is you who is trying to prove something true.
well the truth is,you would love those things to be true,but
they arent,and thats how they will stay.my logic in this discussion so far has
been perfectly logical,and hasnt been proved illogical yet.brush up on your
debating skills,because you base everything you say off of unconfirmed
assumptions.
Quote: As a side point please pay
attention to both your spelling and grammar, solitary letter i's should be
capitalised like this I, there should be spaces after commas, and apostrophes
exist for a reason so please use them. I know this is a minor point and
irrelevant to the discussion, but it would make it easier to read your
posts
Does it really matter?im pretty sure you will be able
to understand me if i say " i like" instead of "I like"...If
this is your attempt at making feel bad about my debating skills,it isnt
working...your the only one who has pointed this out,for obvious reasons to
undermine me.I must say,you arent half bad at debating,but your faults ruin your
valor.
Quote: well I found plenty of them...and i found a super
great one,but I lost it...but here's one.
Scientific Accuracies of the Bible
You might as well do some research behind the website itself.
Note: Evangelical Protestant views.
It labels off branches of Christianity as cults, rather than their own
beliefs... -.- Just look at the "Islam, Mormons" area -.-
Also, the "scientific accuracies" aren't so scientific.
Theres also a lot of misinterpretations.
Quote by Carm.orgThe Existence of Water
Paths (Ocean Currents) in the Seas
1. "O LORD, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth!...When I
consider your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which
you have set in place,...You made him [man] ruler over the works of your hands;
you put everything under his feet...the birds of the air, and the fish of the
sea, all that swim the paths of the seas"
Looky looky, all it says is swim the paths of the seas..., it doesn't say
anything about currents. Paths of the seas, it explains fishies moving -.-...
thats about i. It also mentions birds..., now... why? Birds have nothing to do
with the ocean (unless they're stuck in it, or getting fishies)
1. "He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst
under their weight" (Job. 26:8, NIV).
2. "He draws up the drops of water, which distill as rain to the streams;
the clouds pour down their moisture and abundant showers fall on mankind"
(Job. 36:27-28, NIV)
3. "The wind blows to the south and turns to the north; round and round it
goes, ever returning on its course. All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea
is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again"
(Ecclesiastes 1:6-7, NIV).
Scientific: Condensation occurs, do to the many evaporated water, how water
evaporated? Cause the sunlight (even though boiling point is 100c or 212f, it
doesn't mean just one molecule isn't hot enough to evaporate) anyways,
condensation causes it to become heavier, denser, etc, till they form little
water drops. That also, not all water 'slides' into oceans, some can go into
lakes, some stays in your backyard, some stays on the leaves of trees... you get
the point. They're taking a 6 grade view of things...
Quote: well first,you happened to
repeat some of the things you\'ve mentioned.....like the fish crawled out
one....and also,scientists tend to overeact when they make discoveries,turning
the phrase\"it looks like it has legs\" to \"it has legs and its
an evolutionary discovery!\"
lastly,its still wikipedia lol.
And hey, we can say that everyone overacts whenever they find something that
comes into their favor... duh?
Quote: personal experience= truth
and proof to an individual concerning Christianity,while non beilevers remain
untouched by such truths.and i didnt have many lives,it was a typo...ever heard
of it?
Its a proof to that individual, but its not going to prove anything for the
religion itself. Also, thats not a typo, its a poor choice of wording.
Quote: I proved on how it was
considered proof and truth to an individual,and how people like you would never
know about it...your statement was the illogical
substance.
Do I have to reply something to this? I mean look at it... 'your statement was
the illogical substance'. How does a personal experience be considered as logic?
Logic stays consistent from time to time, while experiences and feelings will
change.
Quote: and then seperate the
\"stupid thing\" into parts...like normal people would do.')
WHERE id = 1389666
Normal people? I think the majority here actually just quotes the things they
want to reply to and leave the other stuff behind, so its not an annoying piece
of mess. Like what you're doing.
Quote: merged: 01-14-2008 ~
12:15am
since it wont let me quote to darkroses comment(thats strange),then i'll copy
what i said onto this...
Please explain how it came in that order? Cause I'm reaaallyy curious about what
you did. Cause apparently it goes 12:15, then 12:16 (time is write) then to
12:13! o.o? Somethings wrong there...
Quote: thats not a good analogy.A
car does not prove to the individual that it is the best.But yes,I trust God
because all of its claims come to light,and what it says is true.The prayers
that I am told to pray work.There is a different change in me,that topples
anything in my life...Why would I spend my time on something I felt was
wrong?Not just that,but my life now rotates around God,and I love it dearly,and
thank Him for this.
You don't quite understand his analogy do you? You only experienced one, and
you're saying its the best and the only correct one. Yet you haven't experienced
others. Thats what it means, to test drive one car and say its the best.
Quote: yes.because the proof and
truth comes only from believing fully,it is impossible to prove it to the
unsaved.And so the bible backs up my claim.so again,your not going to find it
100% correct unless you become a true believer.Get it?
Its awesome how you use the bible to prove the bible, its funny.
Quote: other than judaism,the other
religions are sadly false.They took the idea of faith from the truth,which is
Christianity.The reason i exclude Judiasm is because they have the basic things
correct,but deny Jesus,for foolish reasons.
Oh wow... you do realize Christianity is the "newer" religion of the
ones you said... So how can something old, take from something new? When the
new, never existed -.-
Quote: let me begin by saying the
universe was not created by over 900 Gods.Second,they mention a difference,but
is it a good difference?no.Believing the evil is your master may change you
alot,but it doesnt change your life in the way its suppose to be changed,the
good way.So yes,there is a difference.
Uhh... do your research before saying stuff... -.-
Quote: You might as well do some
research behind the website itself.
Note: Evangelical Protestant views.
It labels off branches of Christianity as cults, rather than their own
beliefs... -.- Just look at the "Islam, Mormons" area
-.-
just because the site is run by a religious person doesnt
mean anything.They still provide information that is something other than the
bible...
Quote: Also, the "scientific
accuracies" aren't so scientific.
Theres also a lot of misinterpretations.
really.I beg to differ...prove me wrong.
Quote: And hey, we can say that
everyone overacts whenever they find something that comes into their favor...
duh?
so you admit your fault?good job...i think this is a
first.
Quote: Its a proof to that
individual, but its not going to prove anything for the religion itself. Also,
thats not a typo, its a poor choice of wording
well,it
confirms it among people who believe,and gives them reason to tell others about
it...I believe that aids the religion of Christianity.and yes it was a
typo...grow up and learn how to not corrupt factual things.
Quote: Do I have to reply something
to this? I mean look at it... 'your statement was the illogical substance'. How
does a personal experience be considered as logic? Logic stays consistent from
time to time, while experiences and feelings will change.
no as a matter of fact,you dont...Im not sure why you
did...The concept of a persoanl experience which is considered truth/proof among
the believer for good undeniable reason is definitely logical...just not to you
because you arent able to observe it through a microscope.If I experience God's
presense and actions,thats not going to change the fact of God being
there...even if I became an atheist,I couldnt escape the fact that God contacted
me in many ways...its denying the truth.
Quote: Normal people? I think the
majority here actually just quotes the things they want to reply to and leave
the other stuff behind, so its not an annoying piece of mess. Like what you're
doing
this is just an attempt to undermine my
reasoning...stop talking about the so called "mess" that nobody else
cares about and get to the point.
Quote: Please explain how it came
in that order? Cause I'm reaaallyy curious about what you did. Cause apparently
it goes 12:15, then 12:16 (time is write) then to 12:13! o.o? Somethings wrong
there...
eh,i dont know...just replied to all your faults and
posted it...and then it came up all wierd...hope it doesnt do it
again...
Quote: You don't quite understand
his analogy do you? You only experienced one, and you're saying its the best and
the only correct one. Yet you haven't experienced others. Thats what it means,
to test drive one car and say its the best.
I do,thank you...but I'll play along.What Im saying is if I
know God exists,and he contacts me in many a way,then why woul i look
elsewhere?i found what I need,I need not to look elsewhere.
Quote: Its awesome how you use the
bible to prove the bible, its funny
its awesome how i used my
own claim to prove the bible right,and then backed it up with the bible once
more to assure people that I wasnt detering from the right stuff.its funny how
you didnt understand that.
Quote: Oh wow... you do realize
Christianity is the "newer" religion of the ones you said... So how
can something old, take from something new? When the new, never existed -.-
oh wow,you do realize that islam,the false religion that
derived itself from christianity and judaism,is the newest religion...and that
Christianity and Judaism were the first religions to introduce a monotheistic
ideology to them...which is also sensible,since I dont believe there is a God
for everything(like a god of wood,and air,and dirt...gimme a break)
Quote: Uhh... do your research
before saying stuff
what made you think I didnt?unlesss your
going to introduce a new type of religion that I forgot,or maybe a new addition
a religion added,then I dont see my wrong doings unless you point them out.
Quote by kingray100[quote(...) you do
so here in one post
To be honest,no.There is a difference
between proving a religion wrong,and proving mine
right....
Then why claim you proved Islam wrong? What makes
you think you proved it wrong?
Quote: the bible mentions that I'm
not going to get everyone to believe anyway,and also it mentions how I wont be
able to prove it 100% correct.
There's a reason for that.
There are many rational people out there.
Quote: If the bible could be proven
right,then the messege God sent to everyone about faith is useless,and God
doesnt make mistakes,so I hope you understand why you arent going to hear about
God's car parked in an allyway,or see Jesus putting up a christmas tree in
Decamber.
So you're saying it can't be proven right? At least
not 100%?
Quote: Christianity runs on
FAITH.
So does Islam, so does Judaism, so does Hinduism, so
does every superstitious belief in the past and present in every corner of the
Earth.
Quote: So stop insisting that I
have unstoppable proof of God,because Im limited to not being able to.Again,all
I will say is that God has changed me,no question about that,and I now
understand how I was a fool back before when I was "lost",but take my
word that I am not lying.
You know, there are plenty of
Hindus out there who say that Brahman has changed their lives and there's no
real difference when we place a Christian claiming God changed their life. It
was you who changed yourself because it's only you who can change you. Makes
sense right?
Quote: first...I virtually proved
Islam completely wrong on the islam thread...i did that twice....no argument put
up...second,wiccans dont change,only they go deeper into sining and taking pride
in things such as homosexuality.I know a wiccan,and the only reason he doesnt
like the bible is because he doesnt know anything about it lol.Buddhists dont
have much of a policy,nor a God,only to achieve the impossible "perfect
peace" and "absolutely no temptation" stuff,which again,is
humanly impossible,which makes them think they will go to heaven and eventually
be coming back as a flower,or a dog....Now I can say for the rest of the
religions that there is a thing called "thinking that their religion is
right..."now this would include muslims,such as where they would believe
their nonexistent God,and then pray to him,but recieve no answered prayers,but
they wont dare say this out in the public because its too much of an
issue,especially over in the middle east....but we also have to include the
prayers that were indeed answered,in the column where maybe "My God,Jesus,
answered their prayer,so that they may know his presense a little more in some
way.Scientologists cannot expeirence the things people do when they are involved
with a religion,Christianity in this case.There is only one true choice out
there in the world...you can tell right off the bat,that having more than 1
religion means all the rest are wrong.(excluding the ones that are the same,like
protestant and Baptist....their christians when truly saved)...in conclusion,it
isnt wise to accept the other experiences...take my word,that IM being 100%
serious in telling you"I have found the way"...so please just give it
a chance,and you will be very grateful.
This post gets to me.
It's a big claim to say one religion is right and the others wrong SOLELY based
on emotion and experience when you've spent little, IF ANY, time 'experiencing'
the other religions. It's a BIG claim
especially for someone that then goes on to say he can't PROVE his own religion
right when he's asked to put his money where his mouth is.
It's funny, you're basically test-driving one
car and then claiming that it's the GREATEST CAR IN THE WORLD! It's a
ballsy move and I respect your honesty and
tenacity.
Quote: Then why claim you proved
Islam wrong? What makes you think you proved it wrong?
what
do you mean why?because it makes a point.and i proved it wrong by providing good
details on how the beginning of Islam was started.(dont look for me to repeat
the whole thing again here...look for yourself.)I even went face to face with a
muslim in the discusion,and nothing...
Quote: There's a reason for that.
There are many rational people out there.
there is a reason for that,because God knew humans would try
to prove and disprove his word with wild theories and human idealogy.
Quote: So you're saying it can't be
proven right? At least not 100%?
yes.because the proof and truth comes only from believing
fully,it is impossible to prove it to the unsaved.And so the bible backs up my
claim.so again,your not going to find it 100% correct unless you become a true
believer.Get it?
Quote: So does Islam, so does
Judaism, so does Hinduism, so does every superstitious belief in the past and
present in every corner of the Earth.
other than judaism,the other religions are sadly false.They
took the idea of faith from the truth,which is Christianity.The reason i exclude
Judiasm is because they have the basic things correct,but deny Jesus,for foolish
reasons.
Quote: You know, there are plenty
of Hindus out there who say that Brahman has changed their lives and there's no
real difference when we place a Christian claiming God changed their life.
let me begin by saying the universe was not created by over
900 Gods.Second,they mention a difference,but is it a good
difference?no.Believing the evil is your master may change you alot,but it
doesnt change your life in the way its suppose to be changed,the good way.So
yes,there is a difference.
Quote: It's a big claim to say one
religion is right and the others wrong SOLELY based on emotion and experience
when you've spent little, IF ANY, time 'experiencing' the other
religions.
Of course it is a big claim...but the claim goes
unclaimed by society because we think there's more to it than that.and there is
no need to experience any other religions when you have found the right
one.Again,I give you my honesty that I do,indeed,encourage the path of
Christianity.It changes humanity to the way its suppose to be.
Quote:
It's funny, you're basically test-driving one car and then claiming that
it's the GREATEST CAR IN THE WORLD! It's a ballsy move and I respect your
honesty and tenacity
thats not a good analogy.A car does not
prove to the individual that it is the best.But yes,I trust God because all of
its claims come to light,and what it says is true.The prayers that I am told to
pray work.There is a different change in me,that topples anything in my
life...Why would I spend my time on something I felt was wrong?Not just that,but
my life now rotates around God,and I love it dearly,and thank Him for
this.
merged: 01-14-2008 ~ 12:15am
since it wont let me quote to darkroses comment(thats strange),then i'll copy
what i said onto this...
Quote: I bet you all my money an atheist wrote that
page.
And if you\'re wrong?
Quote: im dont see how i was a
hypocrite from your example...it simply makes sense...if i experience something
you cant,I have the right to tell you henestly what I experience,confirming that
I am a reliable source...although it still isnt enough for I
bet...figures....only the physical hand of God will make you
think.
The illogical part is that you said you know it to be, yet you give no proof by
logic on how it is true...
Quote: as for
wikipedia
You\'re quite ignorant aren\'t you?# ^ a b Edward B. Daeschler, Neil H. Shubin
and Farish A. Jenkins, Jr (6 April 2006). A Devonian tetrapod-like fish and the
evolution of the tetrapod body plan. Nature 440:
757�763.
doi:10.1038/nature04639.
# ^ a b c Jennifer A. Clack, Scientific American, Getting a Leg Up on Land Nov.
21, 2005.
# ^ John Noble Wilford, The New York Times, Scientists Call Fish Fossil the
Missing Link, Apr. 5, 2006.
# ^ Meet Your ancestor, the Fish that crawled. New Scientist Magazine. Retrieved
on 2007-02-07.
# ^ Meet Your ancestor, the Fish that crawled. New Scientist Magazine. Retrieved
on 2007-02-07.
# ^ Fossil Suggests Missing Link From Fish to Land. NPR (National Public Radio).
Retrieved on 2006-11-27.
# ^ The fish that crawled out of the water. Nature. Retrieved on 2006-04-06.
# ^ The Academy of Natural Sciences, Philadelphia, press release April 3, 2006.
(doc)
# ^ a b Peterson, Britt. \"An Evolutionary Finding\", April 5, 2006.
Retrieved on 2006-04-05.
# ^ NewsHour, Fossil Discovery, April 6, 2006.
# ^ Nunavut Living Dictionary. Entry for tiktaalik
# ^ a b Spotts, Peter. \"Fossil fills gap in move from sea to land\",
April 6, 2006. Retrieved on 2006-04-05.
# ^ Gorner, Peter. \"Fossil could be fish-to-land link\", Chicago
Tribune, April 5, 2006. Retrieved on 2006-04-05.
# ^ Holmes, Bob. \"First fossil of fish that crawled onto land
discovered\", 5 April 2006. Retrieved on 2006-04-07.
Just go look at those then... its the references for Wikipedia, they\'re not
just all stuff that come from nowhere, sheesh...
Quote: only to tell you my
experiences with answered prayers and the dramatic change in many
lives...
Personal experience = nothing. -.-, and... you had \'many lives\'?! Oooooo,
creepy -.-
Quote: yeah big deal...i eventually
learned though...with the person i was addressing,he has been a member for
awhile now and expected him to learn one way or another.
And yet you quote the whole stupid thing still -.-, sure you do...
merged: 01-10-2008 ~ 01:58pm
Forgot one thing.
Quote: including what life might be
on venus(that was funny),or the unproven big bang
theory...
Think of it this way, the blackhole exists, and yet in a long time ago, people
didn\'t believe in it... -.-
Quote: And if you\'re
wrong?
then I\'ll apologize...but that wont be
happening.
Quote: The illogical part is that
you said you know it to be, yet you give no proof by logic on how it is
true...
I proved on how it was considered proof and truth to an
individual,and how people like you would never know about it...your statement
was the illogical substance.
Quote: You\'re quite ignorant
aren\'t you?# ^ a b Edward B. Daeschler, Neil H. Shubin and Farish A. Jenkins,
Jr (6 April 2006). A Devonian tetrapod-like fish and the evolution of the
tetrapod body plan. Nature 440:
757�763.
doi:10.1038/nature04639.
# ^ a b c Jennifer A. Clack, Scientific American, Getting a Leg Up on Land Nov.
21, 2005.
# ^ John Noble Wilford, The New York Times, Scientists Call Fish Fossil the
Missing Link, Apr. 5, 2006.
# ^ Meet Your ancestor, the Fish that crawled. New Scientist Magazine. Retrieved
on 2007-02-07.
# ^ Meet Your ancestor, the Fish that crawled. New Scientist Magazine. Retrieved
on 2007-02-07.
# ^ Fossil Suggests Missing Link From Fish to Land. NPR (National Public Radio).
Retrieved on 2006-11-27.
# ^ The fish that crawled out of the water. Nature. Retrieved on 2006-04-06.
# ^ The Academy of Natural Sciences, Philadelphia, press release April 3, 2006.
(doc)
# ^ a b Peterson, Britt. \"An Evolutionary Finding\", April 5, 2006.
Retrieved on 2006-04-05.
# ^ NewsHour, Fossil Discovery, April 6, 2006.
# ^ Nunavut Living Dictionary. Entry for tiktaalik
# ^ a b Spotts, Peter. \"Fossil fills gap in move from sea to land\",
April 6, 2006. Retrieved on 2006-04-05.
# ^ Gorner, Peter. \"Fossil could be fish-to-land link\", Chicago
Tribune, April 5, 2006. Retrieved on 2006-04-05.
# ^ Holmes, Bob. \"First fossil of fish that crawled onto land
discovered\", 5 April 2006. Retrieved on 2006-04-07.
Just go look at those then... its the references for Wikipedia, they\'re not
just all stuff that come from nowhere, sheesh...
well first,you happened to repeat some of the things you\'ve
mentioned.....like the fish crawled out one....and also,scientists tend to
overeact when they make discoveries,turning the phrase\"it looks like it
has legs\" to \"it has legs and its an evolutionary
discovery!\"
lastly,its still wikipedia lol.
Quote: Personal experience =
nothing. -.-, and... you had \'many lives\'?! Oooooo, creepy -.-
personal experience= truth and proof to an individual
concerning Christianity,while non beilevers remain untouched by such truths.and
i didnt have many lives,it was a typo...ever heard of it?
Quote: And yet you quote the whole
stupid thing still
and then seperate the \"stupid
thing\" into parts...like normal people would do.')
WHERE id = 1389666
merged: 01-14-2008 ~ 12:26am
Quote by marfish--Hmm, I did. It came up
with one thing. A forum where people were debating the bible and whether the
things said in it are true.
Quote: apparently,you take joy in making
stereotypes.
I don't 'take joy' in it. It's merely my observation.
As I've said, only a fair amount of Christians I've seen doing that...I'm not
generalizing all Christians. Just some. Like you for example.
Quote: I would say I am offended
but then again you did apologize for the generalization so its all
good.
I'm really sorry if you feel offended, I don't mean you Mnemeth-san. Most
Christians are not like that at all...apparently just a few...
As to you kingray...
It seems like you're stereotyping all the religions in the world except for your
own, based on what you think the other religion is about. Not that you actually
know it. And I won't give YOU any chance at all just for a simple reason - your
attitude. I'd give Mnemeth a chance, but heck not you. You're making even worser
stereotypes than me! I find your opinion on Buddhism rather idiotic;
Quote: Buddhists dont have much of
a policy,nor a God,only to achieve the impossible "perfect peace" and
"absolutely no temptation" stuff,which again,is humanly
impossible,which makes them think they will go to heaven and eventually be
coming back as a flower,or a dog'.
From that statement I KNOW you don't understand the concept of Buddhism in the
first place. A word of advise for you - don't act like an expert of something
that you know next to nothing about.
Quote: Could you do so here in one
post? One post should be enough for your
"proof".
Yes, I'd like to see that 'proof' too kingray.
Let's see what other things nice things you have to say about a religion other
than your own.
Quote: I don't 'take joy' in it.
It's merely my observation.
well i think you better come up with a different way of observing these type of
things other than stereotyping people,even if they do seem the way you
think.
Quote: It seems like you're
stereotyping all the religions in the world except for your own, based on what
you think the other religion is about.
Well Im sorry to burst
your bubble,but when trying to prove your religion is right,you also have to
prove your relgion is the "only right one",in where all the rest are
wrong.surprised?
Quote: From that statement I KNOW
you don't understand the concept of Buddhism in the first place. A word of
advise for you - don't act like an expert of something that you know next to
nothing about
oh I understand alot about Buddhism.I've
debated with buddhists,and read some information on them....If you think my idea
of them is wrong,please specify what I got wrong next time,because I dont see
how I have the wrong idea.
Quote: Yes, I'd like to see that
'proof' too kingray.
just because I proved a religion wrong,doesnt mean I can
prove my own 100% authentically right...since the bible even mentions that I
cant....but all I can say is I wouldnt tell you my religion was real if I didnt
think so.
whatever....just stop being a hard ass about it...sometimes I wonder if moderators have too much power...
merged: 01-29-2008 ~ 02:54am
I've pointed out my cause too many times darkrose...if you cant understand that,then I can see why you dont understand other things.
merged: 01-29-2008 ~ 03:32am
Athiesm encourages making your own meaning to life,and living it with your own principles,not God's.Christianity encourages Gods morals,which are flawless...but i think you got confused with the people of the religion and the religion itself....as for your last comment,its worded very strangely...could you ask that again in a way that makes sense?
You mean it encourages being go "good" for its own sake instead of for fear of damnation, tell me what strikes you as the more honest?
The last point means that if an atheist is right then guess what there is no feeling of being judged. As a further clarification given that you cease existence upon death you cannot therefore feel judged, there is nothing to judge.
This means that an atheist can actually enjoy his life instead of worrying about what comes after.
Poorly worded humour on my part, and a miss of obvious sarcasm on yours.
As nothing, including the universe, is eternal your question is obviously flawed. I also note that you're back to preaching damnation rather than coherent thought.
Ah so you read enough to see that I was pissed off with your claiming to know what I feel, but you don't seem to have paid any attention to the point where I asked you to not do it again. So lets try this in reverse:
You cling desperately to your supposed afterlife and the being who claims to hold the keys to accessing the nice part of it. You do this because you know deep within your subconscious that there really is nothing. You came to this realisation one day and were so scared by the thought that your meaningless existence would end without your having left an indelible mark upon the world that you turned to the first thing that allowed you to ignore the fear gnawing at your mind. Knowing deep down that even this crutch is meaningless has caused you dissatisfaction with your new life as a believer. This has in turn led to your lashing out at those you perceive to happier than yourself in an attempt to both garner some fleeting sense of worth and in a futile attempt to shore up your ego against the possibility of realising once again with your waking conscience the pointlessness of life.
As far as I can tell you never were an atheist, you were an agnostic who suffered from the revelation that the universe couldn't care whether or not you exist, and sought solace in the arms of hollow belief.
While I know a number of people who are sincere in their beliefs, I really do think you are just hiding from reality instead of being one of them.
Oh and if you are going to accuse me of taking the easy option, try having some idea about what my life has been like. As there are maybe three people who actually know anything like the truth about my past, and even then none of those know everything and one had to work out most of what he knows through inference.
I know for a definite fact that you are not one of those three therefore you cannot make any statements about what I may or may not feel with any hope of accuracy. Try looking up the full lyrics for my signature for a slight hint about one part.
Let me point this out to you,since you seem to be new to this type of thing...I use the power of informing to defend the bible....just because I mention what the scripture says about hell,doesnt mean I am preaching...I have even told you that I dont preach and I dont plan on to....I inform,not preach....get it right
well your potrayal is insulting...Im im sure you would find it the same way if me including others stereotyped you and your friends.I dont flaunt my salvation,I tell you from what I know as an honest man,that I know what is right...has nothing to do with my salvation...and the truth is,either way,that salvation is the one thing you dont have,nevertheless,how do you feel so superior in your opposing claims when you've known nothing of what I know?You will never know what I know until you are brave enough to ignore the lies of the world and give it a try.again,you can point out all the lies of man and scientific findings,but I cant sway what I know is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
on the contrary,a man can study the years of the holocaust and the life of a crazy man who controlled Germany for many years,but not Know the man was Hitler until the man was either interested in the name from the beginning,or introduced to him in his learning process of the events.I was more worried of the actual sequencing and motives of the event,not the name people called it...although now that you mention it...I now can call the event something...
no.the bible still has the same meaning,and gives the correct point.If a book says a man or woman with powers,and another of the same says a witch,then it does not change the meaning...if the book says the dog ate,and another says the ate dog,then it doesnt change the meaning(back in those days,the type of language translated was a langauge where they could reverse words and make it mean the same thing.)simple things like that does nothing to its authentic reasoning,even when passing by human error,it retains just about every important messege needed to know about God.
it doesnt matter if Jesus fed 200,5000,or 7000...the point is he made a great miracle.and Jesus was never a murderer...he was perfect,and the only perfect one that ever set foot on earth...As for god conducting the things he created,you have no right to critisize his doings,because his thoughts are beyond us,and his reasons and will are unknown to humankind....dont you dare insult God's Will,because then,you show your weak point of not understanding the God I defend,in which you should retire from this debate if this is correct.
you aid it yourself the numbers meant the same thing...if thats the case,then you prove nothing....if the bible says 10 people were fed,and you find out only nine people were fed,you automatically assume its evidence for you,when really it gives more evidence for the bible...God didnt want you to care how many people were exactly saved on a day,or how many people were fed over a miracle...he wants you to know he cares for you and provdided a way into heaven with Him.so stop dwelling on the small things that mean nothing...if your going to attempt to discourage me,do it right.
If you cant give up your human instinct to use man made technology to prove God's existence,then you are lost,in my eyes,probably forever...its sad how you only use one man made technique to find God...even when God says it wont work...tis a shame,that it is.
I dont need solid proof....The only proof people should see is the change in a truly saved person,and how they want to share the good news with them.and for the last time,im not preaching....so really,I wonder if A NUTJOB LIKE YOU WILL UNDERSTAND THIS..
well if your eyes are bleeding this means two thing....you either have a very strange disease which needs to be treated right away...or you tried to be funny and nobody laughed....
well the bible does say God is a jealous God in the old testament,but not hypocritical....im not familiar with this pantheon thing of yours but i can say this...it doesnt matter what God or godthey believed in previously...they found the truth themselves and knew there was another way....sure not all people belived him,even when he was standing next to them,but thats there problem,not ours.
ok look...to be honest,I dont have the time to respond to all of this nonsense,nor do I want to...but im gonna only respond to the main points...
I've proven wronf islam in the other thread.And I never said i was going to prove christianity right in the first place...get it right.
look,im a busy man...im not gonna waste my time repasting something that you could look up yourself...exuse my vocabulary in this comment but stop being a lazy ass and find it yourself...next thing you know it,you want me to clean you'll want me to find your evidence!So look it up,or specualte that it doesnt exist even though it does,just like you do with God.
you didnt get the comment...i was trying to point out things didnt have specific Gods,like dirt having a god,and and the trees having a god...ect.
yes,the all loving God does allow people to go to hell,because they reject him.right now,your rejecting Him and so dont cry or complain when you already know your fate.You complain on how the all loving God would do such a thing...then dont go to hell and tell others about it!you literally have the choice of going to heaven,or hell....stop delaying and make a decision.
I finally found a proof of how to put your thoughts out of the old testament....in the new testament,Jesus abolishes the old testament rules,and brings fourth new rules...(excluding the 10 commandments)so first,its not what christains are suppose to do..second,it doesnt matter what happened...to us,killing people when they are doing something they think is right is bad,but to the all knowing God who created us,he knows what is best and what is worst for us...
merged: 01-21-2008 ~ 12:58am
its funny how you automatically assume that relgion is false facts,when more than half of the bible is found to be true and reliable...what about all the wars and towns that were mentioned,were they false?of course not...
yet again,personal expeirecne does equate to truth,depending on the subject.It provides truth to one person...not anyone else...a truth can be true without anyone knowing of it...its insufficient to be proof to the whole world who uses other methods to find "truth"...but not to the believer.And I never said I know because Im saved....Saved doesnt mean much to you to begin with,(im guessing from your comments)...so I told you other things from im being saved magic trick.Proof is something humanity considers proof,and yet there are things not known to humanity that are true...for example...God.
Well only people who talk about behavior(especially on an internet debate room) and use it to their advantage are the people who have nothing to point out...Again,dont expect anything different from me just because I claim myself as a Christian...If you want to see evidence of behavior and judge it upon me,get to know me outside the debate box.all your going to see is a man who wants to defend his religion and fix the lies society has spread.and I have no problem with saying people who reject Christ as their savior go to hell...it's what the book I believe says,and Im gonna tell ya about for your own good.
let me begin by saying you just stereotyped a largegroup of people...I hope you reply with an apology.Secondly,I dont ever use my salvation to prove Im right.I use little dabbles of scientific info(for the science people),and personal honest statements made about myself.It's impossible for me to say nothing has changed ever since I was saved....I would be lying...
Well the name wasnt familiar...I paid more attention to their motives and processes...aside from ther name....but I'll look into that later...and your last statement made little sense to me....I dont see how you came to the conclusion of how I was exaggerated or false....please explain your assumption to me.
Im not sure what you're pointing out...I could have told you that there are different stranslations within modern bibles...they use it for purposes such as an easier read....but nevertheless,I use the King James bible,since its the closest to original preserved scripture.But again...why point this weak point out?most of it was done purposefully,and doesnt affect the authenticity of the actual scriptures...but overall,you should read the book "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel...it points out in detail on how the scriptures are authentic...(it was written by someone who was an athiest who used his own observatory skills and court skills to decipher the truth.Good read,if you want the full story.(i would tell you,but the book is quite large,and I have trouble remembering the detailed history and accounts of everything.)
again...I noticed that this was pointless also...it still doesnt divert the actual point of the bible....a simple number change doesnt really mean much to anyone...unless you would like to explain why you even bothered fighting for this claim.
thats just a false opinion.and just to let you know,I've only represented one site recently...so your judgement on the sites I provided was assumptious like and amatuer like.
Yes,they are logical.Its just your misunderstanding most of the things I say,and exaggerating them to your interest...I never said you dont know because your not saved...the thing is,Christianity runs on faith...so how do you expect me to tell you anything else then "believe and find out?"The truth lies within,is basically what Im trying to say...unless you want to give it a try and ignore the theories of the world to find your meaning,then I dont expect you to fully know about it...as a matter of fact,you arent suppose to know about it before your saved anyway...so unless you make that decision now,your only running around in circles...and i never said wikipedia doesnt count...i simply said that it isnt very reliable,compared to a real science point from an unchanged program,with actual proof supporting their claim...(the thing is you need hard proof to prove what you say,while I dont)...wikipedia is changable by anyone who wishes to change it.the end.
yes you are...your underminding my debating skills to make me look bad...if you henestly had a full actual important problem with my grammer and ect,then pm me...dont use it in this type of debate...it's foolishness...(lol,your playing the darkrose game.)
I'll get to this in a sec...just gotta finish some other stuff first...
just because you cant test it,doesnt mean its not proof(at least not to you anyway,but to others yes)personal experience is inaffective against you,but not to the people who go through it lol.
no,there's only one God...if my God is true,then so is his word that says there is only one god,and its him.
Actually,its a definite fact that Islam is the newest religion(of the main religions,anyway).And I know there isnt a God for everything in existence,but the examples I used are some of the things that are involved with the polytheistic religions.So yes,you are wrong,and concluding that,means your argument is flawed.
Athiesm encourages making your own meaning to life,and living it with your own principles,not God's.Christianity encourages Gods morals,which are flawless...but i think you got confused with the people of the religion and the religion itself....as for your last comment,its worded very strangely...could you ask that again in a way that makes sense?
My gosh.I know radicals will jump on me for this,but you are a blockhead.Of course they dont have a God.You really think Im that uneducated?the point was that they had no experiences to go by....of course they dont pray...This is the greatest and worst assumption you have made yet.
As expected you hide it...but of course,its normal since we are debating...I never expect you to admit...you feel like your free from the shackles,when really the devil has loosened your shackles enough for you to rumage around...but when your time is up,those shackles are drawn back to the wall,and you will face your judgement.Feel free why you can...you only have the years that come along on a humans lifespan...other than that...you tell me how eternity feels compared to 80 years.
but you do take the easy way out.its easy to not live by the rules of our lord,because its natural to us....it may even be percieved as "fun",but things all have a price.you may not crave God,but you know something's there.....again,go ahead and retaliate with dirty messages and angry insults,but you cant hide it...the fact is,you are trying to convince yourself there is nothing....by the way...its better to comment on someone's behavior when you havent acted like a fool yourself...just a word of advice.
i believe that post by eternal paradox isnt familiar to me..You see,there are way too many things to read in such a small amount of time...people are surprised when I skip their comments,but really,it takes hours for me just to fight back against the same type of opponent....Im only one person with a limited time...you have five or more people sprouting out telling me their ideas...also,when I quote specific sentences,and post it,the whole message from before comes out,without my doing...so its not my fault...
the person you relate me to doesnt come to mind...but I see its your way of insulting me,or I should say,underminding me.The point is,if you cant understand a person's word's,or at least understand their view correctly,you shouldnt judge anyone and say their illogical or ect...you say faith like its a bad thing,but really,your assumption couldnt be farther from the truth.
I must say,you've pointed out the point I want to bring to light...I am bunched around many athiests and nonbelievers...and I have no problem with that(i expected it from the research already given to me without trying)But its the time,and patience I find unbearable....sometimes I just wait a week to give myself some personal time away from the incessant replies.(i also have a job)
now anyway...as for my prayers...it is useless....I could say something like God allowed me to live for another day as an example,and people would think Im crazy,and assume that I really have no compelling reasons....(even though that is an example,I definitely wont use that,since its not good enough...for you anyway)...but the truth is,If I told you my exeriences and prayers,you would again speculate and try to find reasons for everything...I want my secrets to be your secrets as well...and there's one way to do it...Trust and believe in God,and his son who died for every last one of us....a simple prayer,and yet its turned down by many.This area is meant for debates,not to release my personal secrets and reasons out to the MT society so that they may corrupt my information.My prayers will stay classified in this debate.The bible is written more by men...it was written by the men who saw and spoke to God...the men who were told by God himself to write these things....even if history seems dim in the bible to you,the fact that Jesus is our savior remains, and always shall be true.
merged: 01-18-2008 ~ 05:18am
understood....but you forgot to point out that my goal was never to convert anyone...nor do I use force to do that.My goal is to tell people and inform people about God's word/bible...too many people have the wrong idea of the bible,and im here to straighten the record...and also convince people that the reason for life is more important than any science.and yes,prayer....but again,im simply explaining and debating in a modern manor...but I give you thumbs up because you are an admirable person,at least to my vision.
oh im sorry...its just it takes me around 20 minutes to complete each post,and i kinda have a life to live...not to mention when I look at this...most of your questions are meaningless,not to be rude or anything...but I'll give it a shot...
did you forget what I said previously?just scroll up.proving a religion wrong makes a point.
the forum wasnt that long...look it up yourself...Im not good at reiterating stuff...especially when you can look it up with ease yourself.
then come join the dead argument,program...who's stopping you?
of course it does...God's son(which is basically God) was on earth.thats why its a miracle.your lucky he didnt do something even more unbelievable...like lift a planet up and throw it around the galaxy...then atheists would be growing rampant haha.
how does this relate to the sentence you replied to?this is a first.never had something like this happen.
Because I know for a fact that my God exists,and that there is only one God.
well really,if you understand the bible,Christianity was before anything...its just it wasnt called that,nor did the practices seem familiar to what we know today...but yes,hinduism takes the role for being before it since the christianity of the time wasnt fully understood,and nonpopular...until Christ came and made it official.Hindiusm is sadly a false religion...again,its from me knowing my God is authentically real...so I wont be surprised if you dont believe me.
one reason would be,that the jews "wanted" their messiah and "expected" their messiah to free them from rule and fight for their country ect...being selfish.They wanted to be freed from the hold of other nations ect...when really Jesus freed everyone,making a way into heaven,giving the Jews the ultimate freedom...Just because Jesus was a Jew,doesnt mean the Jews are special people who get to go into heaven automatically....(the new testament explains this everywhere,read if you are interested).its foolish to want you messiah to do one thing,when he has done beyond that thing...proving that humans are selfish.
well,i dont think dirt has a God...do you?plus,again,I wont be too much help in these type of things since again,I know for a fact my God is real.period.
why do you get the idea of us threatning you about it?we are just tellinyou what happens when you reject Jesus...simple as that...Its not like i want you to go there...i want you to be in heaven..but its your choice not mine.you cant say hell isnt fair,because here I am talking to you about the subject of God.
how can I explain this to you....?its like walking up to God himself and shaking his hand...and him handing me a gift...I know he's there...and If i honestly know this,then there isnt a point to look elsewhere.
bible never tells us to burn witches(if there are any to begin with)...and where in the bible does it say to burn a cross?and nobody is forcing you to confess anything...but you have the choice to confess your sins to God...not anyone else....and Chrisitanity doesnt stand up for anti semitic programs...at least not the true christian churches...(saved people who operate the churches)so no,it isnt the wrong direction...its just the world's assumptions that make it seem wrong.
your not getting it...im telling you,you dont need to experience all other religions to find the right one.you sound like an illogical recording machine...your not making a point so give up.
thats for me to know,and for you to find out...I dont want to tell you the secrets God has done for me when I know that wont be enough to persuade you.Thats my secret little arsenal that I use to people who are in the thinking process of everything...which I cannot use on you since this is an online debate...that would simple also be a very personal matter which might affect the debate in a negative way.If you were to say you were thinking,I couldnt believe you because I dont know you on a persoanl level,also,that you might use those words just to see what I have to offer,which wont work...Im too shrewd for such things.
again,thats what you think...but I know that isnt the case.
illegal?well there are sure legal drugs that are are wrong also...and its not so much emotion either...go deeper than that
Well really,the thought of atheism should work for everyone because its the natural sinful nature we are born into...not to mention the feeling of not being judged or going to hell is a nice feeling...but that wont last forever.As for atheism,it works with only the lost...as for your experience,non egoes along with it...you dont experience the God of no Gods answering your prayers...you experience the false hope that you wont be judged,but you know down in your heat,that you are wrong...You probably wont admit that,but I was once in your shoes,and I know what its like...you know he's there...its just you choose the easier way out.again,you probably wont admit,for reasons like keeping your atheist reputation,or sounding weak in a debate...but I know its there,and you crave for the comfort of God and his love....so please answer that calling,or at least give it more thought.I'll pray for you.
you know,people like you tend to prove my points without knowing it.again,nonbelievers will not find proof through a believer's experienced proof because it is not in their sight.thanks for proving my point.
well first,its not nice to butt in on personal comments such as this,because things happen,such as you not understanding what the little exchange was all about.what you made out wasnt enough,so its better left alone.
again,i'll point out that nobody is perfect,yes,even christians.and its too hard to convey christian behavior on an online debate,so dont be so assuming of what you see in the debate room,because the format and strategy I use in debating is this,its too hard to prove a point or debate when im being very humble and shy.I want you guys to know the facts here,or at least get you guys to think about your lives.
thanks for mentioning I was born again...im flattered.even though you may not know me on a personal level,at least you know some things other people dont.Omedeto(means congrats in japanese).and honestly,I dont get the difference between all these little branches...I've yet done research on these things...but I would like to be known as just a truly saved christian...not a political figure,or something people would despise for any reason...I am simply myself.
I've seen a dtailed documentary on this thing...the name of the group doesnt ring a bell,but their actions and motives do.They excluded some things in the beginning for reasons such as not being related,too grusome of history,and things that were questionable...all and all,the bible was made the way it was,to preserve God's Word as what He wanted it to be...these men I should say,were ordained by God to make the right choices in creating the biblical canon correctly.
no,doesnt sound familiar...point that verse out for me,and I will do research on it.even if it is in the bible,I bet it was only a mistranslation with atheists...but go on.
where's your proof?
first,I only resort to using the internet because your allies request me to do so to prove my point.Secondly,i never forbidded anyone using the internet...let me explain some things to you,since you came out of nowhere...it was previously debated on many a thread that wikipedia is unreliable.I have a thing against the reliability of wikipedia,not anything else,unless i find out a reference is just an illogical hate site.
well the truth is,you would love those things to be true,but they arent,and thats how they will stay.my logic in this discussion so far has been perfectly logical,and hasnt been proved illogical yet.brush up on your debating skills,because you base everything you say off of unconfirmed assumptions.
Does it really matter?im pretty sure you will be able to understand me if i say " i like" instead of "I like"...If this is your attempt at making feel bad about my debating skills,it isnt working...your the only one who has pointed this out,for obvious reasons to undermine me.I must say,you arent half bad at debating,but your faults ruin your valor.
merged: 01-15-2008 ~ 08:11am
just because the site is run by a religious person doesnt mean anything.They still provide information that is something other than the bible...
really.I beg to differ...prove me wrong.
so you admit your fault?good job...i think this is a first.
well,it confirms it among people who believe,and gives them reason to tell others about it...I believe that aids the religion of Christianity.and yes it was a typo...grow up and learn how to not corrupt factual things.
no as a matter of fact,you dont...Im not sure why you did...The concept of a persoanl experience which is considered truth/proof among the believer for good undeniable reason is definitely logical...just not to you because you arent able to observe it through a microscope.If I experience God's presense and actions,thats not going to change the fact of God being there...even if I became an atheist,I couldnt escape the fact that God contacted me in many ways...its denying the truth.
this is just an attempt to undermine my reasoning...stop talking about the so called "mess" that nobody else cares about and get to the point.
eh,i dont know...just replied to all your faults and posted it...and then it came up all wierd...hope it doesnt do it again...
I do,thank you...but I'll play along.What Im saying is if I know God exists,and he contacts me in many a way,then why woul i look elsewhere?i found what I need,I need not to look elsewhere.
its awesome how i used my own claim to prove the bible right,and then backed it up with the bible once more to assure people that I wasnt detering from the right stuff.its funny how you didnt understand that.
oh wow,you do realize that islam,the false religion that derived itself from christianity and judaism,is the newest religion...and that Christianity and Judaism were the first religions to introduce a monotheistic ideology to them...which is also sensible,since I dont believe there is a God for everything(like a god of wood,and air,and dirt...gimme a break)
what made you think I didnt?unlesss your going to introduce a new type of religion that I forgot,or maybe a new addition a religion added,then I dont see my wrong doings unless you point them out.
Then why claim you proved Islam wrong? What makes you think you proved it wrong?
There's a reason for that. There are many rational people out there.
So you're saying it can't be proven right? At least not 100%?
So does Islam, so does Judaism, so does Hinduism, so does every superstitious belief in the past and present in every corner of the Earth.
You know, there are plenty of Hindus out there who say that Brahman has changed their lives and there's no real difference when we place a Christian claiming God changed their life. It was you who changed yourself because it's only you who can change you. Makes sense right?
This post gets to me. It's a big claim to say one religion is right and the others wrong SOLELY based on emotion and experience when you've spent little, IF ANY, time 'experiencing' the other religions. It's a BIG claim especially for someone that then goes on to say he can't PROVE his own religion right when he's asked to put his money where his mouth is.
It's funny, you're basically test-driving one car and then claiming that it's the GREATEST CAR IN THE WORLD! It's a ballsy move and I respect your honesty and tenacity.
what do you mean why?because it makes a point.and i proved it wrong by providing good details on how the beginning of Islam was started.(dont look for me to repeat the whole thing again here...look for yourself.)I even went face to face with a muslim in the discusion,and nothing...
there is a reason for that,because God knew humans would try to prove and disprove his word with wild theories and human idealogy.
yes.because the proof and truth comes only from believing fully,it is impossible to prove it to the unsaved.And so the bible backs up my claim.so again,your not going to find it 100% correct unless you become a true believer.Get it?
other than judaism,the other religions are sadly false.They took the idea of faith from the truth,which is Christianity.The reason i exclude Judiasm is because they have the basic things correct,but deny Jesus,for foolish reasons.
let me begin by saying the universe was not created by over 900 Gods.Second,they mention a difference,but is it a good difference?no.Believing the evil is your master may change you alot,but it doesnt change your life in the way its suppose to be changed,the good way.So yes,there is a difference.
Of course it is a big claim...but the claim goes unclaimed by society because we think there's more to it than that.and there is no need to experience any other religions when you have found the right one.Again,I give you my honesty that I do,indeed,encourage the path of Christianity.It changes humanity to the way its suppose to be.
thats not a good analogy.A car does not prove to the individual that it is the best.But yes,I trust God because all of its claims come to light,and what it says is true.The prayers that I am told to pray work.There is a different change in me,that topples anything in my life...Why would I spend my time on something I felt was wrong?Not just that,but my life now rotates around God,and I love it dearly,and thank Him for this.
merged: 01-14-2008 ~ 12:15am
since it wont let me quote to darkroses comment(thats strange),then i'll copy what i said onto this...
merged: 01-14-2008 ~ 12:16am
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then I\'ll apologize...but that wont be happening.
I proved on how it was considered proof and truth to an individual,and how people like you would never know about it...your statement was the illogical substance.
well first,you happened to repeat some of the things you\'ve mentioned.....like the fish crawled out one....and also,scientists tend to overeact when they make discoveries,turning the phrase\"it looks like it has legs\" to \"it has legs and its an evolutionary discovery!\"
lastly,its still wikipedia lol.
personal experience= truth and proof to an individual concerning Christianity,while non beilevers remain untouched by such truths.and i didnt have many lives,it was a typo...ever heard of it?
and then seperate the \"stupid thing\" into parts...like normal people would do.')
WHERE id = 1389666
merged: 01-14-2008 ~ 12:26am
well I found plenty of them...and i found a super great one,but I lost it...but here's one.
Scientific Accuracies of the Bible
well i think you better come up with a different way of observing these type of things other than stereotyping people,even if they do seem the way you think.
Well Im sorry to burst your bubble,but when trying to prove your religion is right,you also have to prove your relgion is the "only right one",in where all the rest are wrong.surprised?
oh I understand alot about Buddhism.I've debated with buddhists,and read some information on them....If you think my idea of them is wrong,please specify what I got wrong next time,because I dont see how I have the wrong idea.
just because I proved a religion wrong,doesnt mean I can prove my own 100% authentically right...since the bible even mentions that I cant....but all I can say is I wouldnt tell you my religion was real if I didnt think so.
merged: 01-11-2008 ~ 07:35pm